873-C payout issue

[Phan000]

Saw this machine on a local listing.  Owner states payout coil is burned.


I’ve never come across a Bally with these buttons on the front. 


Any ideas on this model ID?

[shortrackskater]

Hmmmmm another Bally oddity.
There might be a plate on the lower right side with the model number on it.
The experts should chime in here soon. If you search "skill stop" in the Bally EM area, you'll get a few more of these machines of different varieties. Some were made for export. To me, this one looks like a mash up of two machines. It's got the skill stop buttons but it seems odd they would produce a "jackpot only" machine with those features.

[rdaniel]

This machine does not look like a skill stop.  Those "buttons" look like grommet's used to cover three holes in the reel frame.

[Phan000]

That makes sense.

The seller is supposed to send me photos of the plate later.

Thanks for the help.

[Simple Sam]

This machine does not look like a skill stop.  Those "buttons" look like grommet's used to cover three holes in the reel frame.

That's what it looks like to me. Someone cobbled together a machine from parts on hand? I can't imagine that the Eldo would have done that.

[wolftalk]

something like an 873-ZZB would match the reel tapes and belly glass.  The "lightning" 873 models typically had the small pay table with only 7's, bars and 5/bars


rdaniel and sam's suggestion it's just the wrong reel glass frame sounds likely.

[shortrackskater]

This machine does not look like a skill stop.  Those "buttons" look like grommet's used to cover three holes in the reel frame.

I should have clicked on that photo and looked closer!! 

[Phan000]

Turns out it is an 873-C


Those “buttons” were just caps.


Needs cleaning for sure, but looks mostly unadulterated.

So the reel and award glass are the wrong ones for this machine?

[rdaniel]

The glass looks like it is after market. You might check the manufacturer info on the glass to see if it is Bally or IGT.

[Phan000]

Previous owner was told that payout coil and possibly a gear are bad.


Any idea what coil they might mean?  The hopper motor has power and cycles occasionally.  When a winning combination is hit, there is a hum from the handle release area, but nothing else.


Also, looking at the reel mech, I can see that the coin relay is burned up.


My other 873 has a 184-216 coil.


Is that the correct one for this machine?  Paper covering is burned off.


Thanks!

[wolftalk]

873-C is also a lightning model.  The belly glass on that game would be the standard bally one, but that doesn't matter.


payout coil could be payout relay or payout counter reset ... both are standard coils easily obtained.


the bally 2400 manual has the newer coil parts numbers:
- coin relay - F-31-1500 (old part number was E-184-218)
- payout relay coil - G-31-1800 (G-32-2500 on a model 935 machine)
- payout counter reset coil - C-28-1100

[Phan000]

I replaced this coil under the hopper






The machine pays on major and minor jackpots only.


When bars are hit, this coil engages and hums.  That’s it, no payoff.










Also,  the stepper is not working up top.  It accepts and plays on one quarter, but does not advance.


I cleaned the plastic cog, as well as cleaning and lubricating the wiper board.


What would cause the no pay on bars?


Thanks!

[wolftalk]

if the 20/40 pay relay is powering, you've got a closed circuit path thru the reels.


between yellow/back wire 38 on the 20/40 coil and the 20 trace on the payout counter disc is:
- a switch on the 20/40 relay with wire 38 and yellow/brown wire 36-1 on the blades.  Should be closed when the relay is powered
- an "open after 50" carriage switch with 36-1 and black/red wire 81.    The carriage switches are the vertical ones near the bottom/left corner.
- plug connection to the hopper
- wiper<->20 trace connection on the payout counter


one of the above is open when it should be closed.


the line step-up unit at reset is 1 coin/line play.   Try manually closing the line step-up relay.  If the step-up coil doesn't power, either a switch on the line step-up relay is bad or the step-up coil is bad.


the line step-up relay should power when the coin switch is down AFTER the handle release relay has tripped to release the handle, so another check is to hold down the coin switch and see what the line step up relay is doing.  If the line unit doesn't step, the line step-up relay should hold itself powered and the coil may be toasted.

[Phan000]

Thanks wolf for the comprehensive post.


The switch on the 20/40 relay closes properly.


It appears that the carriage switch does as well, though I have not replaced the coin relay yet.


It is burned and looks bad.  Perhaps this is the issue.




The yellow/black wire is connected to the beau plug.


Where do I test it upstream for continuity?


I figure I’ll tackle the stepper after it is paying properly.

[wolftalk]

is the coin relay not tripping?  If it doesn't trip, the handle shouldn't release.


the charred off coil wrapper implies there was an issue at one time - probably the line unit not resetting properly and/or the open-at-zero switch on the line unit not opening.  That would keep power on the coin relay, line unit reset relay and possibly the line unit reset coil if another open-at-zero switch didn't work.  The line unit reset coil would be the biggest problem since solenoid coils are high power.  It would get red hot and eventually melt.  Relay coils may burn the wrapper but usually survive overheating and the damage is cosmetic.


you have the 873-C schem, right?  It's downloadable for free from http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/


the pay circuit is below.  If the 20/40 pay relay is powering, you're good at the green highlight and something is wrong along the yellow path.  Assuming the 20/40 pay relay is on the reel mech (since wire 38 doesn't leave via the beau plugs),  you'd want to check wire 36-1 ... that does go thru the reel mech and hopper plugs. 


If you wanted to check continuity, either step up the payout counter at least 20 times or stick paper under the wipers so the 20 trace is isolated, then you can check continuity from wire 81 on the 20 trace to wire 38 on the 20/40 relay.


note it's possible to have continuity and the circuit still doesn't work ... it's better to measure resistance and look for almost zero ohms, and best to measure voltage along the yellow path with one probe while the other probe stays on wire 70 on any handy 50V coil.  Look for where the 50V drops. 


'course, you have to keep pulling units, clipping on the probes and shoving the units back in before checking voltage unless you have jumper harnesses so you can operate units outside the cabinet or take the trouble to jumper around the beau plugs ... which bypasses possible failure points.


jiggling/thumping the hopper unit or reel mech is a valid way to see if a beau plug connection is flaky :-)

[Phan000]

Using jumpers I was able to see that bar wins did produce power to the beau plug.


So I looked at the hopper some more.  It turns out the white plastic ratchet was sheared.  The wipers happened to be stuck at jackpot payout-  this is why it worked only with a jackpot.


I put a longer screw and refastened the plastic cog and spring. Will order a new one as well.


The machine pays correctly now, but the 20/40 relay still hums after a payout.  It only resets when another quarter is inserted.  Not sure what that could be?




I’ll take a look at the stepper next.


Thanks again for the advice wolf.

[Phan000]

Duplicate post, sorry.

[Phan000]

Looking at the stepper unit,  I see some arcing in the line unit step up switches.


Both coils in this area have been tested.


The arcing appears to be coming from the switch here, though there are no loose wires or visible damage.


I still have not figured out why it won’t reset after a win, without inserting a quarter.






Video of arcing is here-  [size=78%]https://youtube.com/shorts/ZHKIg93qEgM[/size]

[wolftalk]

the switch gap you pointed to with the yellow arrow looks a little big.  Are you getting good overtravel after the contacts touch?


also, those are high power tungsten contacts (both contacts bigger hockey-pucks).  Some arcing when they open/close is normal, but they shouldn't arc when the relay is powered or unpowered, just when the switches are changing state.


you can file tungsten contacts.  Stick the file between them and hold the switch closed while filing.  Goal is parallel contact surfaces with no pits.  The adjust non-moving switch blade for gap and overtravel.


you technically shouldn't file the smaller domed contacts as they are often a coated contact and filing removes the coating, but if they are damaged to the point of not working reliably, you have nothing to lose.


a bunch of relays like the 20/40 and 777 relays will stay powered until you spin again.  The coil is capable of staying powered more-or-less forever as someone could walk away after a win and leave the relay in the powered state.  Because the relays stay powered, they tend to get more wear on the coil top and dimples get worn into to armature plate ... then the relay buzzes.


easy thing is swap the armature plate and coil with a relay that uses the same parts that either doesn't stay powered or is rarely powered, like one of the 777 relays, but other hacks like sticking a piece of electrical tape on the coil top or occasionally filing the coil top and whacking out the dimples will make the buzz go away.

[Phan000]

I’m getting nowhere with the stepper.  Have filed the switch that appears to arc, and adjusted.  Still arcing and not advancing.  If I manually advance, the corresponding lights do come
on, and reset after a spin.


What is the best way to test the coils?  I have jumpers, but am not getting any movement from
Either of the coils in the photo below.


One coil appears to have been replaced after a meltdown.  There was paper below the wire in yellow, preventing it from shorting on the frame.


Kinda stuck for ideas on what to try next...