831-ZE "All Jackpot" Repair and Troubleshooting, random payouts.

[markpurc]

...and here's the wiper contacts.  They all look like they are where they are supposed to be.  The next picture is the opposite side of the first reels wiper board.  I don't see the gray wire that you mentioned. 


It payed even though the wiper boards do not have continuity (first reel is on 2, second is on 4, third on 3). 


How do you check the 2 pay on the step up unit?  I'm just figuring this out, so thanks again for the help!

[DavidLee]

Okay,

From the view in the photo, it looks like the wiper blades are slightly out of adjustment.
Maybe just the angle and shadows.

Old school test cut a piece of slick paper to fit over the 1st reel wiper board.
Secure it with tape as to be an insulator.

An easy way to achieve a payout is to stop the clock fan while the reels are in motion.
Set the reels with your right hand to the payout in question and hold in position.
Release the clock as to finish the cycle. Observe the reaction

[markpurc]

I think you're right, I'm going to adjust the wiper board forward (away from the reels) slightly. Will report back with results!

[markpurc]

I adjusted the fingers on the board and was hopeful, but it did not change the mystery payouts.  I tested it and the machine will pay where the first reel is in any position 2 (BAR BLANK BAR), which is quite often unfortunately.  That makes the payout over 100%; it will give you all its money if you play for a while.  Wish there was one of these in a casino somewhere. 


So now I'm stumped as of what to try next.

[DavidLee]

Take a good look at the wiring on the wiper boards.
For any that are out of place, like broken or touching other wires.
Try the test I mention as to narrowing down the problem.

[markpurc]

Got it working!!!  Thanks NLG!


Here is/was the solution:  Look at the wiring diagram for reel 1 (see attachment):  There is an anomaly for BAR BLANK BAR on Reel 1:  There's a handwritten code for (HR):  Its not written down anywhere else, and all the other BLANK spots on the wheel have no wires connecting them.  But for some reason, Reel 1 does for this troublesome combination.  Does HR stand for High-Return or something?


Does anyone know what this HR stands for?


Anyway, I put a piece of tape over the two spots (D-9 and E-9), and NOW IT WORKS 100%!! Hallelujah!!!


Thanks again for all your help everyone!  I'll have to de-solder the wires off the board for a more permanent fix, but right now I'm very happy.

[wolftalk]

HR = hopper relay ... actually, hopper mixer relay


on the machines with an old style hopper - with the motor to the side and a golf-ball coin level detector - the hopper mixer relay powers occasionally to tumble the coins in the hopper.   That helps level them out since jackpot style machines don't pay as often.


turning on the hopper motor works because the override solenoid is not powered.  The coins are diverted back into the hopper rather than ejecting out.


if your game has the new style/snow hopper, there is no override solenoid.  It wasn't needed because the hopper has a brake that prevents an extra coin from coming out when the pay ends.   The HR relay shouldn't be there on a game with the new style hopper, but the wiring for it is still on the reels, which is why the schematic shows the odd wires-to-nowhere for the HR rivets on the reel 1 wiper board. 


leave the reel wiring and see what's going on with your hopper.  Take a look at the 831-ZP schem on the bingo web site for how an old style hopper circuit worked.  Note the payout relay switch in the 120V circuit that should prevent the override solenoid from powering when the hopper mixer relay switch is closed.


if not sure, post pics of your hopper.  The override solenoid is on top and controls a diverter just before the roller the coins pass under as they exit.  David probably has some nice pics and maybe a suggestion on whether you actually need/want the mixing function to work.


the 831-ZE schem I have is for the new style hopper (w-1046-1808).  Note the -ZP is w-1046-1017 ... almost 800 drawings earlier.


there's a 831-ZE-100, which is a $1 machine with schem w-1046-1194, so the numbering of the drawings doesn't go in the obvious model number order.  That's partially due to some machines initially being made for a single denomination, then later the casino ordered the games in other denominations and the payout disc may be different, so the schem is different.


 

[DavidLee]

Photos of the hopper float, diverter and diverter coil.

[wolftalk]

just to keep the terminology consistent with the bally paperwork, in david's previous post:


diverter coil (on hopper)  = override solenoid
diverter (on hopper) = coin kicker (the thing the override solenoid operates to, well, divert a coin back into the hopper).


there's a "coin diverter" on the door that directs coins to either the hopper or the overflow bin.  Coins go to overflow when the float switch says the hopper is full.


then there's the coin lockout coil, which is behind the mech and causes coins to be rejected back out to the player when the game is not ready to accept a coin.  A few games called it the coin scavenger coil.

[markpurc]

Ok, so this was the case!  That's why the coins were coming out randomly (or not so randomly):  Whenever the hopper relay was hit (between two BARs), the diverter was not activated, so it just spit the coins out. 


Check out the picture: Sure enough, there was a spring sitting there not attached to anything.  I used your pics to see that it should be wound around that joint connected to the solenoid.  But it was stretched out, too.  I cut it in two and fit it so that there was some spring.



I took off the tape on the reel boards and gave it a spin.  Working!!!!!!!



Wolftalk, DavidLee, again, thank your for your expertise!  I now feel like it is working the way it should be!   


Also, hopefully, this thread will help others that have the

[markpurc]

...Picture did not attach for some reason...  This is a picture of the broken (and stretched) spring.  I had to cut it in two and fashion a loop to get some elasticity.