Bally 889-B Reel stop issue

[Phan000]

Drove way farther than I would care to admit to pick up this cool 889 yesterday.


Cleaned and lubed the reel mech this morning.


The reel stops seem to engage immediately most of the time.


 If I lift the black lever in the photo and rest it on the top notch, then finish pushing the reels, they seem to operate normally 75% of the time.





What should I look at?


Thanks.


https://youtu.be/RGieESkHaQ0

[wolftalk]

usually that's caused by the reels kicking off too early - the timer links haven't latched yet.


try moving the stop bracket (J in below) left to make the kick happen later.  If you move it too far, the handle will bottom out and be stuck down.  You can push the latch pawl (O) with a long screwdriver to make the game kick and release the handle.


could also be the A gear is not meshed into the other gear's teeth correctly, or something not assembled right in the timer links under the reels.


the 889-B paperwork will get added to http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ in the next couple of days.  If you want to take more pics and post or email them to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll include them with the info. 


it's always nice to have:
- entire front of machine (done)
- inside door
- inside game door open
- lamp panel behind top glass (if game has one)
- inside cabinet with hopper and reel mech removed - both straight in and entire right side showing handle stuff
- reel mech left and right sides, including right reel wiper wiring and wires
- reel mech top including reel wiper wiring
- reel mech bottom showing timer links and if there's a variator there
- insert board in top from various angles, especially if the labels are there


that stuff helps people identify a machine when their model tag is missing or wrong.

[Phan000]

Spot on as always wolf.  Some minor adjustments with that stop bracket, and works well.  Still may need some fine tuning, but much better.


This machine will need a thorough going over.  It would be a great anti smoking ad-  nicotine and tar in every crevice and part.


The hopper and stepper will need to be cleaned.  Stepper is kind of overwhelming to take in.


Not sure if the left side is missing a coil?


I took photos of all the areas you mentioned and will email them in a bit.


Thank you!

[wolftalk]

first pic with the missing reset solenoid is ok.


I think those types of units are called "continuous steppers".  The ratchet just goes around clockwise endlessly.  Notice there's no torsion spring on the hub to make the ratchet spin back counterclockwise.


in this case, I'd guess it's the jackpot total stepper unit, which controls how often the jackpot increases and also is used when resetting the jackpot with the key switch.


looks like you have a tied wire connection with black tape on it.  Is that a green/white and white/red wire connected together?  Can you see where they went? 


"mean green" (not simple green) works well to remove nicotine. 


wrt to the stop bracket position, I think DavidLee has said on most games the right edge of it is flush with the frame.  Occasionally it needs to be a little left of that, but not often.  If you aren't worried about dealing with the handle stuck down, then you can play around with how far left is too far :-)

[DavidLee]

From the photos the machine looks really clean.
The Bally coil wrapper along with the wiring look really clean.
A little tar and nicotine is a good sign it hasn’t been messed with.
Be careful when cleaning the printed side of the glass.
Just for the heck of it, you could reset the progressive payouts to an even thousand.
I believe for every 4 coins it adds a penny to the progressive jackpot then alternates.

[wolftalk]

889-B docs are uploaded.  I have a 5-10 cent schem to process still, but the 25c one is there.


I guessed on the jackpot stepper unit diagrams, but david's comment matches the drawings with the exception that the 25c game doesn't increment the pennies reel, it increments the dimes.  The pennies reel stays at zero.


on pinball machines they often used a dummy reel that displayed a zero, but the schematic implies the pennies reel is complete with a coil, it's just not hooked up. 


your game looks like it has a correctly wired pennies reel for a 5 or 10 cent game.  Maybe the denomination got changed after it left the factory?  Does it say 5c or 25c in sharpie at the top of the panel?

[Phan000]

I didn’t notice the .05 or .10, but denomination was definitely changed at some point.  The .25 sign is on plain paper and scotch taped to the glass.






Mostly seems to be working well.  Haven’t checked out the green wire with electrical tape.


The progressive works,  every few coins the bottom goes up by 1.


Multiple coins make the lights on the door step up, but the top glass 7’s all
Stay illuminated all the time.  Will have to see if stepper is frozen.


I’ll email
The high res photos, but here are a few.




My wife loves the look of this one, so it will stay in the family for a long time.

[DavidLee]

The 3rd reel mechanism needs cleaning and lubricant. The index arm is not retracting as to allow the reel to spin.


Line lights on the upper glass should coordinate with the coins in like the bottom.
This is most likely controlled by the odds step up unit.


Progressive jackpot alternates every 4th or 5th coin, can’t remember which.
Had a machine exactly like that, the top mechanisms preform a little sluggish until it was played for awhile.

[wolftalk]

Line lights on the upper glass should coordinate with the coins in like the bottom.
This is most likely controlled by the odds step up unit.

looks right per the schem.  On this game, the odds unit is called the line unit.

I think it's pretty consistent that when the game is multiple line, it's the line unit.  When it's multiple coin to increase payout, it's the odds unit.  They are essentially the same thing tho ... they reset to whatever the first coin does, then step up once for every coin added.

if your reel glass lights are working right, then the line unit is stepping correctly.  It's not clear from the schematic which lamps are controlled in the top ... i.e. what lamp(s) does the "1st coin 777", "2nd coin 777" and "3rd coin 777"  symbol represent.

in the schem chunk below, the green paths are working.  One of these is true:

1] the panels to the left of the 7's are working and the 7's and right panels are normally always lit.
2] the top/bottom jackpot relay switches/relays have a problem
3] someone did some rewiring or there's a short

if the panels to the left of the 7's are always on, then it's not [1] above.

if you want the jackpots to increase in 10c increments instead of pennies, you need to do the following things:

1] on the upper jackpot, disconnect the two red wire segments from the 1c reel coil and if necessary cut the wire at the solder point so you have a long segment and a short one.  Attach the long red wire to the white/green wire on the 10c coil.  Yeah, that ties different color wires together, but that's how bally did it on the 25c 889-B's.  Tape off the short red wire (the one going to the 1c reel switch).

2] on the bottom jackpot, do the same thing to the yellow/brown wire


3] put both the upper and lower jackpot penny reels on zero.  Or anything you like, as they won't move.


that will increment the jackpots in dimes and correctly stop incrementing when the reels get to 999.9x, which is how the 25c version of the game is supposed to work.

[Phan000]

All the lights up top stay lit all the time.  As suspected, the line unit is stepping up correctly.  There is a blink in the lights when coins are deposited.


I noticed some different markings on the top, as well as some wire tape repair or splice.


The hopper seems like it was swapped maybe.  It does not have the weighted overflow feature,  I actually have to wedge it in under the shelf of the reels.  There is a wanky switch on the bottom.  It is all mangled,  but when I inadvertently pushed the top switch down, the hopper was a runaway. 

[slcjeeper]

Regarding the runaway hopper, can you reset the payout counter to zero? On the bottom back of the unit is a horizontally mounted solenoid that can be pressed in from the left side. Press this and the spiral disc should spring back to zero position. If it doesn’t, you need to find out why. Did the spring wound on the back side of the payout counter get removed? It’s possible that it is overwound. When the spring is too tight, the spiral disc and wiper fingers stop turning before reaching the end of the payout trace leaving the hopper motor to run continuously. Check the spring and see how many times it has been wound. Typical is about 2 times. When wound properly, the counter should advance 200 clicks easily before binding. 

[wolftalk]

I think he meant the hopper ran when he manually closed a switch.

old style hopper is correct for the game.  The golf ball float switch closes when the hopper is full and the coin diverter on the coin door sends the inserted coins into the overflow chute.


the mangled relay on the hopper is probably the hopper mixer relay.   Two switches wired in parallel with white and green wires attached?  If so, careful, those are 120V.  If you straighten the blades and stick them back in the lifter slots, the mixer function will work.  If you don't care about burping the hopper, leave it or disable the relay more neatly (disconnect coil wire or misadjust the switches permanently open)


since the machine is a jackpot-only game with infrequent pays, the hopper mixer relay turns on the hopper motor briefly when a reel mech B switch closes to level out the coins IF reel 1 visible symbols are BAR-blank-BAR, which looks like happens 6/20 of the possible places reel 1 can stop.


since the override solenoid is not powered at that time, coins shouldn't come out ... they get diverted back into the hopper scoop.


yellow and blue wires on some lamp sockets are fine.  Those are GI - general illumination = always on. 


the "1st coin payline - 7 7 7 - 200 coins" should be GI since they must always be lit.


I'd guess the lines above and below would have the blue wire (maybe bare wire) strung between all the sockets, and the top would have white/yellow wire 53-3 (also may be bare with 53-3 attached to it someplace), while the bottom would have green/red wire 41-3.  See previous post with schematic.


'course, the lamp sockets are under the stepper units, and looks like under the blue board the stepper units are mounted on, so you probably need to remove that board to see what is going on.  Maybe DavidLee has info on the assembly or if you can peek under without taking it off.  The 1100 manual looks like the blue board sits up above the white lamp panel on a couple brackets (page 44).


the manual can be found in http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/


you've also still got the black-taped wires near the line unit reset coil to figure out ... the white/red and green/? wires.  Are they spliced together, or just not attached and taped off ... and can you see where they go - especially the white/red one?



the taped up wires in your pic are probably:
- black/white - 85-4
- orange/white - 75-4


you can see in the above schem where they are supposed to go ... I assume the jackpot relay switches.  You'll need to pull the tape to see what's going on.


you may want to check and see if someone modified the game to pay the progressive jackpots if you got 777 on any line, even if you only played one coin.  That would explain always lighting everything on the top glass 777 grid.  That would increase the payback percentage from the meager 83.75% some :-)

[Phan000]

The spring where the yellow arrow is seems a bit light.  It has fallen off on occasion.  This could explain. The reel spin issues perhaps?  The reels are just barely adjusted and switch from bottoming out the handle, to kicking the stops too early.








I pulled the tape off of those wires.  There are 4 taped sections, each with just cut wires, no splices.  One on either side of the lights, one directly above the line unit, and one on the far back left going to the cabinet.

[DavidLee]

How about a recap as to what isn’t happening.

[Phan000]

Ok to recap-


Initially, the reel stops were engaging instantly.  I adjusted the stop bracket.  Works much better, but still sometimes either stops early, or also the handle does not give a solid pull. 


This is why I thought that small spring  with the yellow arrow in my last post might be worn out.




Reel lights on door step up properly with 3 coins. 


All lights on upper unit are always on.  There is some wiring mods as noted in the photos in my last posts.


I’d like to get the upper lights back to oem condition if possible.

[DavidLee]

The spring on the trip mechanism has very light tension.
As long as it returns it should be fine.
Try adding a little light oil to the inside of the air shock.
Engaging the handle half way will allow access to the cylinder.
As the oil works in, the handle will direct more force to where it is needed to trip and spin the reels.
Remove any excess oil.


As for the upper line lights, pretty sure the reel glass lights a linked to the top glass.
Best to check the wiring on the back of the light board.
Check for modifications as in a yellow wire added and sockets modified into a parallel situation.
Originally there should be a common blue wire linked to each light.
Then 3 color coded wires to signal line 1,2 and 3. It’s possible that the colors coincide with the reel glass line lights.

[Phan000]

Thanks for the info David.  I have cleaned the plunger tube well.  Seems like the stop
Bracket has to be super finely tuned.  Still has issues on occasion.


Also, the spring in the photo below with the yellow arrow had been modified.  It was mangled a bit.  I replaced it with a spare, but it does not have the right tension.


What is the part number for this one?

[DavidLee]

The trip lever stop bracket "L" is a fine adjustment.
Haven’t a part number for the "outer compression spring".
Other fine adjustments are the locking nuts on the drive shaft.
This can be adjusted to push the Trip lever assembly a little bit sooner.
Adjustment could be a little as a half turn.

[Phan000]

Which direction kicks the lever, clockwise or counterclockwise?

[DavidLee]

Adjust the outer nut 1/2 turn in the direction of the back of the machine.

Turn the inside nut 1/2 turn in the direction of the rear of the machine.

Leave 1/16 space for play as to prevent binding.

Increasing the length of the driveshaft will cause the machine to trip sooner.

Its important to keep track of the turns, some slight adjustments may cause the machine to get worse.

If the machine does get worse, reverse the process 1 turn.