Bally 910 with pink wiring

[Zigzagzag]

Hi,


I have what I believe is a Bally Lucky bars - model 910-2 (Swedish).


It has no hopper and seems to be made for credit pay only.


The schematics (http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/910-1%20and%20910-2/) tell me the wiring colors for the anti-cheat relay should be red/white, while my machine has black/white.
There is also a lot of pink wiring in my machine - a color that is not referenced in any schematics I have looked at.


As you can see in the picture the odds disc is named "adds disq".


There is no metal plate with name, model or serial number.


Is this a european made machine - or some sort of copied/pirate version ?

[Zigzagzag]

Reading the 1100 supplement manual it seems what I have is a plain 910 model, no dash.
It has no payout/hopper system from the factory.


But the pink wiring is not mentioned anywhere I can see ...

[wolftalk]

doesn't look like the machine was built by bally, so it's probably a conversion.  Do you have more pics?



I don't have a schematic for the 910, which was built for belgium.   


below is the reel wiper wiring for the 910.

[Zigzagzag]

Yes, I have a Dropbox folder here : https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mass1g8fyku9fq0/AAC8wN8pY76Jkbw9jl4bGSm_a?dl=0


The pink wires seem to go on throughout the machine, not only the top box.

[wolftalk]

G.A.A. is General Automatic Amusements in Belgium.

they make (or resold with their name on it) bingo machines and other gaming equipment.  They are still around - GAA - Gaming Solutions

I've never succeeded in getting information out of them, but I'd guess they would respond to their existing customers if you could find one.

since the payouts look like the original 910, it'd guess the 910-2 schematic would be very close if you ignore the anything to do with coin pay mode (the replay/payout switches, hopper stuff, etc.).  They probably didn't bother with the count unit either.

if you can add a picture of the wipers on the odds unit with wipers reset and showing all the wiring attached to the edges, I can try and match it to a drawings I have and that may help map your wire colors to the bally originals.

[Zigzagzag]

Awesome, thank you !


I've added some more pictures to the Dropbox folder, they should show up at the end if you sort by date and time.

[wolftalk]

none of the odds unit diagrams I have match yours very well.


what to do next depends on which if these is your goal
1] want to make the game work right
2] want to document the machine


for [1], if the game isn't working, what isn't it doing right?


if you want to do [2], you are assuming the game is the bally design with wire color changes BUT the position of wires in the plugs and the switch stacks are all the same as the bally game.  I'd use the odds disc to see if that's true by doing one of:
 
1] The easiest is probably remove the wipers and contact plate from the odds unit and take a picture of the wiring side of the plate.  From there I can draw you a diagram and give you a modified schem with your wire colors for stuff connected to the odds disc.   You'd still have to go thru the rest of the game and your new schem changing wire ID's as needed.


2] use an ohmeter to determine which rivets connect to which wires around the end.


most likely, the 12:00 finger connected to a finger poking up from the contact plate, and the poke up finger is connected to the yellow wire (30) on the lugs.  The 6 rivets the 12:00 finger can touch go to your score lights.


the other three fingers are all connected together.  One arc of 6 rivets are all connected to one wire (25 on the schem), another arc has all the rivets connected to different wires, and the last arc connects 5 rivets to wire 80-8, and one rivet to wire 81-8.


your wire colors are mostly different, the goal is to replace the bally wire id with one that matches your machine.


I assume you've taken stepper units apart before.  If not, when removing and especially replacing the wipers, hold the white plastic ratchet so it doesn't slide away from the unit frame enough for the stop barb to clear the tab and unwind the torsion spring.  If you do, no big deal ... you just have to remove the torsion spring, reposition the ratchet against the stop and replace the torsion spring with 1-3/4 turns of tension +/- 1/4 turn.

[Zigzagzag]

I have dismantled the unit and uploaded 3 new pictures.
On one of them I have tried to mark the wire color since the "internal" wiring is all blue and not easy to track in the pictures.


The main goal is to get the machine working - but documentating the wire colors will surely be needed.
I have no experience with stepper units nor slot machines - my background is from solid state pinball machines and electronics in general.
I can read and understand a schematic but am non familiar with the names used on the different units in a slot machine - but I'm getting there, reading manuals and information online.


Right now the machine counts down on the credit meter in the top box when I activate the coin switch on the door manually.
I have put a piece of tape over the door switch (bottom right of cabinet) to keep it activated.
The arm stays locked, but I can enable it manually by pushing the arm lock relay and spin some of the wheels.
They do not seem to stop/lock properly, but I assume that is just a matter of cleaning and removing gunk.


Let me know if there is more I can do !

[wolftalk]

the arm is the handle release relay.   It trips when the coin relay on the left/back/bottom of the reel mech trips ... and the coin relay trips when you insert a coin or play a credit.


you'll have no trouble figuring out the handle release from the schem ... it'll just be annoying with the wire color changes. 


one ambiguity is when is "normally" for how the switch symbols are drawn.  Normally is "when the machine is turned off and all units are in their reset position".  The main impact on your game is the anti-cheat relay.  When you first turn on the game, the relay is unpowered and the switches are as shown on the schem.  When the first coin is dropped, the anti-cheat relay powers and keeps itself powered forever unless the game is somehow tilted - which typically requires running into it with something massive like a mother-in-law.


I'll start doing the paperwork and will stick it as "910-aftermarket-GAA" on the http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots site.


manuals that have useful generic info are the "intro to slot machines", "bally 100 - model 742a revised.." and "bally 2400..." ones in the /bally_manuals/ directory on the above site.

[Zigzagzag]

Thank you, I will read the manuals you refer to.
I cleaned and adjusted all switches I could see.

Right now I have the coin relay activating and the anti-cheat relay working - but still not much else.
These activate on coin insert, but the "coin accepted" light doesn't light, the credit counter (?) counts down and the handle is still locked.
So I will have to dig deeper

[wolftalk]

usually the coin accepted light comes directly from a coin relay switch.  On your game, there may be a payout relay (insert panel one) switch in the circuit as well).

I uploaded the odds unit diagram and a modified 910-2 schematic that I erased a bunch of stuff you don't have/need (xcf file is freeware graphics program gimp). 


I haven't updated the wire id's on the schematic yet tho, but will do that later tonight or tomorrow.


if you can take more pics of the hopper unit, the relays on it, and overall pics of the inside of the cabinet with the hopper and reels removed, that'd help.  Also pics of the left and right sides of the reel mech, especially the coin relay.


some open questions:
- do you have a jackpot relay?


- do you have the standard bally safety motor?


- do you have a stand?  I erased all components that were in the stand.  Your game must go on a stand of some kind so the coins have someplace to go, but it wouldn't need to be the 910-2 factory stand that had some components in it.


- the schematic has a "micro switch" in the coin lockout coil circuit (coil lockout is the coil behind the coin mech that causes coins to reject when the game doesn't want them).  You may not have that switch, or it may be mounted/operated by a door hinge, or it may be the switch at the bottom of the door opening


- the labels on the insert relay say
  cam? motor
  payout relay
  replay relay
  ? [/size]- maybe odds relay.  If you manually close it, does the odds unit step up?  The diode and capacitor on it is odd tho ... typically those are delay relays of some kind.
  ?
  anti-cheat relay

[Zigzagzag]

[size=0px]>if you can take more pics of the hopper unit, the relays on it, and overall pics of the inside of the cabinet with the hopper and reels removed, that'd help.  Also pics of the left and right sides of the reel mech, >especially the coin relay.


Ok, I've added more pictures to the Dropbox folder.>- do you have a jackpot relay?


No, I haven't been able to find anything like that.>- do you have the standard bally safety motor?


I am not familiar with slot machines, but I can't see any safety motor.
I see a timer in the bottom left corner of the cabinet.
Only motor I see is the cam motor in the backbox/insert.>- do you have a stand?  I erased all components that were in the stand.  Your game must go on a stand of some kind so the coins have someplace to go, but it wouldn't need to be the 910-2 factory stand that >had some components in it.


Yes, there is a stand which was mostly empty except for a coin box - see pictures in Dropbox folder.>- the schematic has a "micro switch" in the coin lockout coil circuit (coil lockout is the coil behind the coin mech that causes coins to reject when the game doesn't want them).  You may not have that switch, or >it may be mounted/operated by a door hinge, or it may be the switch at the bottom of the door opening


I have the coin lockout, but no microswitch there. Only microswitches in the door is the coin switch itself and the one on the bottom left of the door which seems to update a counter that count the coins that drop into the bottom of the stand.
There is also a key on the right hand side of the cabinet that will engage/disengage a microswitch there.
I haven't been able to find out what this does, it doesn't seem to affect the machine in the current state.>- the labels on the insert relay say>  cam? motor>  payout relay>  replay relay


I have added tape bits with the relay names that were hidden.
From the bottom up they are :
- anti-cheat relay
- add reset relay
- add relay
- replay relay
- payout relay
- cam motor relay

> maybe odds relay.  If you manually close it, does the odds unit step up?  The diode and capacitor on it is odd tho ... typically those are delay relays of some kind.

The odds wheel steps up when I press the "add relay" and resets when I press the "add reset" relay.
The payout and cam motor relay worked day before yesterday and activated the cam motor in some way - but today they do nothing.


I will look at the schematic you uploaded tomorrow, Gimp is what I use so that is fine.


Let me know if you need more pictures.


[/size]Thank you for your time and effort, I appreciate it ![/size][size=0px]

[Zigzagzag]

Sorry, forgot a relay :


[size=0px]I have added tape bits with the relay names that were hidden.[/size][/size][size=0px]From the bottom up they are :

- anti-cheat relay
- reset relay- add reset relay- add relay- replay relay- payout relay- cam motor relay[/size]

[wolftalk]

I uploaded the latest schematic.  I made all the bally wire id's red - except the plugs -  and then changed id's to green when the color determined from your pics.


there's also a wire_ids_used.txt file.  The idea is when you find another wire that is the same color, but not the same wire, you record the use in the text file.  e.g. There's currently a yellow/brown wire on the odds unit with id 36.   The next instance of a different yellow brown wire would be 36-1, and you'd change the txt file entry to "36 : 1" so you know next one would be 36-2.


the bad news is the circuits look similar to a bally game, but it's not an exact copy.  It's likely things like the reel wiring is the same, and the odds disc is the same, but your coin relay and handle release relay are not the bally all-in-one electrically trip and mechanically reset style.   You handle release relay is more like two relays ... one releases the handle, the other operates the switches.


you're likely going to need to use the bally schematic as a suggestion of how it might work, then trace wires.


for example, for your handle release, you know you need to power the white/blue (52) wire.  When the arm flops down, the switch with the yellow wires (probably wire 30) closes and powers the relay above with the switches.  That probably disconnects 52, connects other stuff, and the top relay stays powered until the handle is pulled and the arm  mechanically opens the wire 30 switch to unpower the top relay.


unfortunately, wire 52 looks like it goes to three places ... if I had to guess, I'd say the pink/brown wire on the handle release relay switch is going to the coin switch, and your problem is the switches on the short stack on the coin switch need a clean/adjust ... after you tighten down the stack mounting screws.


looks like the handle release circuit starting at the coin switch is blue/red -> violet -> pink/brown -> 52 with a plug connection is between, and the coin relay needs to be powered to complete that circuit path.


for guess #2, the key microswitch on the cabinet side may be used to remove the credits when someone wanted to cash out. 


the "micro switch" on the bally schem around E-12 is where the dashpot switch is on most bally games.  You have a dashpot switch, the 910-2 schem doesn't.


you also have a relay on the right side of the reel mech.  Any label?  Could be the jackpot bell relay.  What wire colors are on your bell?  Traditionally one is blue (20) and the other is red (10 or 10-x), but it doesn't look like the reel mech relay has a red wire on the switch.

[mark the spark]

lots to read there but if the counter is counting down straight away then the keyswitch could be in the wrong position