Bally 831-ZZSH large payout problems (none)

[rjpohl]

The machine accepts coins 1, 2 or 3.  Payouts out on all payouts of 18 coins or less.  Does not pay on the larger payouts. 
3 watermelons should pay 20 coins ($5).  No payout at all.  this is true for 3 7's , 3 bars.
any suggestions where to start[size=78%]?[/size]

[Amechanic]

I would start with the reel wipers. If the wiper boards buttons are dirty or tarnished at all you could have a bad connection. Same goes for the wipers them self. I had a similar problem with a Continental a while back. I cleaned everything really good and my payout problem was gone..

[OldReno]

Sounds like the outboard wipers on your payboard are not making contact.
Clean and bend a bit to add tension.

[DavidLee]

Wiper boards jackpot contacts seldom get used and may need cleaning.
Same with the payout step up unit 100, 200 contact strips might need cleaning and or adjustments.


Since all 3 are not working, look for a relay switch stack which may still be labeled, jackpot relay.
Most likely needs to be cleaned and or adjusted.
I would check this first before spinning your wheels.
Jackpot relays can be found next to 3rd wiper board or in a stack of switches on the odds unit.

[rjpohl]

I was messing with different payouts and by chance I rocked the 3rd reel and the jackpot payout started to payout.  I then noticed that the wipers where way off of the 3rd reel.  I adjusted the wiper and I think it's working fine.  I tried payouts on all three lines. 


The only little problem is that the symbols are all a bit higher the center of lines.  The 1st and 3rd are decent by the 2nd reel symbols are higher.  Do I have to un-crimp the strips to slide them?


thanks
Bob

[Jim]

sometimes you can slide them enough to get them where you want them.  with the reels locked in place place your fingers on the strips and try and slide them in the direction (it takes some pressure to do this, don't let your fingers slip or you will slice your finger open on the tin edging like I did) if not then, yes, you have to un crimp, use a small screwdriver to gently open the pressure points, and not damage the strips, usually only needed around the point where the strips ends meet. when you get them where you want it , re crimp them using a pair of small diagonal cutters.

 

[rjpohl]

Thought I had it working correctly but noticed that it does not payout when the 3 bars are on line 3 (bottom line see pic) (should pay out $25). 
It does pay the 5 quarters for cherries being on 1 and 2 reels (on line 1)


When the 3 bars are on line 1 (middle line see pic) it does pay out $25 for the bars plus 5 quarters for cherries on 1 and 2.


When bars are on line 2 (top line no pic) it does pay $25 as it should.


As far as I can tell it's just the when bars are on line 3 that it doesn't pay the $25

[Amechanic]

Put your bars back up on line 3 and try rocking the reels up and down one at a time. You could just have a dirty wiper contact, or you have a problem in the feature units third reel relay contacts.

[rjpohl]

I've tried every payout and they all work properly except when 3 bars are on the bottom line.


I removed reel from cabinet and set the arms in the deepest notch, which I thought would line up the 7's on the center line,  see attached pic of what I have.


thanks

[wolftalk]

according to my docs, the 831-ZZSH used index discs P-684-[168, 168, 169] in the three reels.  Yup, reels 1 and 2 used the same index discs.  The numbers should be stamped on them if you want to sanity check.


the deepest slot on -168 is at position 22.  The deepest slot on -169 is position 1.



the reel tapes are all different, and [melon, plum, seven] on the center line is correct when the reels are indexed in the deepest slots.


assuming 3 bars works on the other paylines, below is the reel wiper/contact plate diagram.  Note the diagram is the wiring side, so if you are looking at the wiper side you have to flip left/right.


you want to check the path by connecting the highlighted wires, starting at 93 on reel 3.   i.e. the circuit is:
reel 3 : 93->18
reel 2 : 18 -> 30-1
reel 1 : 30-1 -> 36-1


36-1 powers the bar relay, and the bar relay/switches is ok if bars pays on other lines.


I have the schem and some paperwork for the machine.  Yell if you need it.

[rjpohl]

Wolftalk thanks for the info, I think I understand it and will test connection with ohm meter in the next couple of day.
Also the index disc are as you stated.


thanks
Bob

[rjpohl]

I have continuity between 93 -> 18 on reel 3
I have continuity between 30-1 -> 36-1 on reel 1


I do not have continuity between 18 -> 30-1 on reel 2


I found that there is only one wire connected to the 30-1 terminal on reel board, all the others have 2 wires each.  There is not a wire going to the wiper button.  I do not see any loose wires.


There is one red wire near the reel board 3 that is cut off and hanging loose, (I'll post pic later)


thanks
Bob

[wolftalk]

I do not have continuity between 18 -> 30-1 on reel 2

I found that there is only one wire connected to the 30-1 terminal on reel board, all the others have 2 wires each.  There is not a wire going to the wiper button.  I do not see any loose wires.

assuming reel 2 is positioned with a bar on the problem payline, then no continuity is a problem. Usually it's a wiper<->rivet poor connection, but in your case it looks like the spaghetti wire connecting wire 30-1 to the rivet is broken off/missing.


wire 30-1 should connect to the rivet highlighted on column 5 on the wiper diagram ... see if there's a spaghetti wire on that rivet with the other end flopping around someplace.

a typical oops would be the spaghetti wire got snagged by the adjacent reel wiper arm and broke the wire off one end of where it was connected - a rivet or a terminal lug.

[rjpohl]

Yeah, I didn't see any loose or broken off wires hanging off the wiper board.  It's a bit difficult to see so tomorrow I will try to unbolt the board and examine it better.
thanks for the help, it's really appreciated.
Bob

[rjpohl]

Wolftalk,
would you happen to have the information for 3 bars on line 1 and 2?  You supplied line 3 info in reply #9.
I'm interested to see if 30-1 is used for those lines too.
thanks
Bob

[wolftalk]

it's the same diagram, but what changes is where the wipers are positioned.


the labels at the top of the columns are the top line symbol, the labels across the middle are the centerline symbol, etc.


so, for example, when you have a bar on the centerline, the wipers will be one column to the left on the diagram (position/slot depth 6), and none of those rivets are connected to wire 30-1.
 
the only time wipers are sitting on rivets with wire 30-1 connected to them is when the wipers are at position/slot depth 5, and that only happens when there's a bar on the bottom line.


I guess the obvious question is how I came up with the preceding paragraph ... if you really want a bad explanation, I can take a shot at it, but it relies on the P-684-* and  m-222-* docs I put on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/831-ZZSH . I recommend you take a few shots of something yourself, take a look at those two things, (along with the w-1046-* schematic if you don't have it) and see if it make sense.  The key thing is the "division numbers" on the m-222 doc matches the "slot numbers" on the P-684 doc.


note the docs have info for more machines than yours.  Look in the info text file for which rows of data apply to your game.

[rjpohl]

I clicked on link in reply above but it gives me a 404 error.


Update:  I found it, had to leave the 831-zzsh off, then when I got to site I found it!


It's starting to make a little sense, I can see how to make sure reel strips are in correct position,  all 3 are different.


Now  If I can figure out a way to make the print outs a little larger!!  My old eyes have trouble with small print!  lol

[wolftalk]

oops, sorry, the sentence ending period got included in the link.  Fixed it.


the files on the bingo site are all 300dpi, so you should be able to zoom in on them as big as you like to make reading easier.  If you want print outs, most fedex copy centers have self-serve large format printers.  They typically want a jpg file, and the print will cost a few dollars in greyscale.  Blueprint shops can do it too, tho ask the price first :-)


the trick with the reel strip positioning is to find the reference hole on the slotted index discs.  There's another thread that has more info if you search. 

afaik, that's how the factory people did it because you don't need to know anything about the game....position the reel in the slot per the reference hole, put the top symbol of the reel tape on so it's on the center/only payline and crimp it in place.

[rjpohl]

For future reference/needs where is W-1041 {2369-2370-2371] located?  I didn't see it in the 831-zzsh directory.
thanks
Bob I

[wolftalk]

oops, there now.