Author Topic: WMS 400 Big Bang Piggy Bankin (Read 3881 times)

kmarrocco · « **on:** March 19, 2021, 04:31:51 PM »

Hi there,
I just picked up a WMS Big Bang Piggy Bankin that I have a couple of issues with. First one is that if the game sits unplugged for a while throws a game change error that requires a ram clear. After the ram clear I am able to play the machine but the sound doesn't work. The machine intermittently emits sounds. I noticed there is a burned trace on the backplane board. I am looking into getting a new backplane board but can't seem to find one
Does anyone happen to have one for sale? Also, any other ideas of things to check into?

Trisail · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2021, 07:10:19 PM »

Looks to me that the burnt trace is on the other side of the board. The area I see is 'non trace' space area. Whatever took it out it took the whole trace out pretty much at once, acted like a fuse. I would assume there is still, or was something very bad, shorted - heavy current draw. I don't have one out to look at to see what trace(s) that would cause the burnt trace. Maybe someone else could help with that. I just sent a back plane board to someone on the forum, I will reach out and see if he would be willing to part with it, I don't think it helped with his problem. I will put him in touch with you. It can be repaired, if you are interested. You are going to want to be sure whatever happened that went bad is corrected before installing a new/repaired board.

Good luck,
Tony

erbs · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2021, 07:15:15 PM »

It's possible someone removed the board with the power on?

kmarrocco · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2021, 08:18:22 PM »

Ok, so maybe I am chasing nothing here....I went through the process of removing the backplane board and it looks like the trace was jumpered on the back to repair the damage. See attached.

Does anyone know if this is only a 2 layer board? If I were to assume that this board is properly repaired, any ideas what would cause the machine to think the game was changed after the machine is unplugged for some time?

Trisail · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2021, 08:25:31 PM »

Yep previous damage. Stick with what is wrong and someone here will help you get it done.
Battery ok? Traces around it?
Tony

kmarrocco · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2021, 08:29:11 PM »

Yes, battery measures 3.66V.

kmarrocco · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2021, 08:16:26 AM »

So this morning the game seems more stable after I put things back together. I have unplugged the machine several times (up to a half hour) and the game has booted up and played properly. I am currently leaving it unplugged for a longer period to see if I get the game change code again.

Regarding the sounds, they still come and go intermittently. The service manual says to check C51, C53, and C60. Does anyone know the values these are supposed to be if I were to replace all 3? Seems the longer the machine is on the more sounds I get.

I have checked D8 and D9 and the seem fine.

Trisail · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2021, 11:28:51 AM »

Sound problem - The troubleshooting guide seems off, I checked my PCB, SLOT I/O --- P/N 5779-13912-03 and schematic and those cap references don't match anything near the sound IC.
Check your PCB and see if it looks like the picture. The PCB P/N is in the red box, the caps you would be interested in replacing are marked and labeled. (If you want caps I can ship them)

I would check the MPU PCB and be sure all the Eproms (XU2, XU3, XU17, XU18, XU30, XU31) are installed properly and completely, maybe check for damaged pins, traces and other obvious problems. Usually when you get the game change error, the machine thinks the Eproms were changed and don't match what is in the back plane Eprom (U1 24C04 from your previous picture - maybe even a bad battery connection?). If you have a problem with any of these and repair that, the sound problem may be corrected also. Check both PCBs, the main connectors to be sure no pins are broken or bent - look inside the big edge connectors on the boards for any problems.

Post a picture of your PCBs may help too.

Tony

kmarrocco · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2021, 01:21:34 PM »

Thanks for your help.....here is the latest of what I have done. I left the power on for a couple of hours and the sound started working. Seems as something heats up it starts working.

Then I shut it off for about an hour. I then pulled both the I/O board and the MPU board. Edge connector pins are all fine and I took pictures of the boards, both front and back. The I/O board has a jumper repair on the back but may be ok....not sure. The p/n of the board matches the p/n on the pic you posted. Those caps seem to look ok but I can look at replacing them this week. After putting the boards back in the machine booted up fine and did not give me a game change error, but sound was not working properly again. I can try to post videos of the sound after power on and then after the machine has been on a while.

kmarrocco · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2021, 01:29:37 PM »

Here are the videos showing the sound behavior.

Immediately after power up:
https://youtube.com/shorts/bVI2aeqh9PM

After machine is on for over an hour:
https://youtube.com/shorts/F5oHCzpnlCg

Trisail · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2021, 03:11:54 PM »

The jumper repair on the I/O PCB was for Q14, it drives one of the multiplexed lines to turn on and off the lamps. If all your lamps are working, I would say the repair is OK.

Let's start a little fresh. You said you just picked up the machine.
1st - You should check for any hardware or coins in places they are not supposed to be. Under boards, behind boards anywhere some metal could cause a short circuit.
2nd - Check all the connectors in the machine and be sure they are plugged in and seated properly, unplug them carefully and reinsert them, this can help with oxidized pins.
Same thing goes for the socketed IC's, remove carefully and reinsert. BE SURE YOU INSTALL THEM CORRECTLY - Reverse them and they are toast.
3rd - Replace all the aluminum electrolytic capacitors in both upper and lower power supplies, even the axial (small) ones on the PDU board under the lower power supply. (Check this post I put up with power supply information, I will try to put a picture up for the PDU caps soon. Check the 1st 5 posts for WMS Power Supplies)
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=31351.msg166074#msg166074

It sounds like the machine is working pretty much, just having intermittent and maybe random problems. I would recap the PS's and see how that might improve things. I can send you all the parts you need if you would like, I repair the PS's for $20 each plus shipping both ways if you are interested, include the PDU board and I will do that free of charge. ( I do more than the caps ) PM me if you like.
Tony

kmarrocco · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2021, 07:04:33 AM »

Good morning, I went through and disconnected all connectors and reconnected them. Also checked for loose coins/objects.....nothing found. One question on the power supply though.....there is a main power supply and then a smaller supply plugged that sits below. Is this a normal repair/upgrade?

All power LEDs illuminate on the I/O board when the machine is plugging in and turned on.

Trisail · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2021, 09:59:11 AM »

You have the mod for power supplies. The originals have been removed and regular computer power supplies have been installed in their place. The big box in the bottom has the pcb with the connectors that distribute the power to the machine. That board has a voltage regulator on it for the +5VI (I think), the led on the i/o board is labeled and all your leds are on so that is good. It does not mean the power is OK, there could be AC ripple on the DC voltages that can cause problems with CPU/MPU addresses and communication errors, the ripple will cause noise and could look like signals. If you know how to check the DC voltages for AC ripple do that. Basically just set the meter on AC volts and see if the readings on all the DC voltages are below 10 or 20 millivolts (mV), if higher then the caps in the power supplies need to be changed.

Tony. PM if you want to chat.

playklax01 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2021, 11:07:59 AM »

Quote from: kmarrocco on March 20, 2021, 01:29:37 PM

Here are the videos showing the sound behavior.

Immediately after power up:
https://youtube.com/shorts/bVI2aeqh9PM

After machine is on for over an hour:
https://youtube.com/shorts/F5oHCzpnlCg

I agree with what the others have been saying. This also is heat related. After the machine has been on a while, things warm up and connections are made stronger, hence the sound returns. Also, if you look closely on the last spin on the first video, that isn't proper behavior. The credits were being added way too slowly. Personally I'd say it's some traces that are still bad after all those repairs.

On the pic of the front of the backplane you posted earlier, if you zoom in you can see some dark spots along the diagonal traces right between the 2 blind connectors. Those look troublesome to me too.

kmarrocco · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2021, 04:56:32 PM »

Thanks everyone for all the ideas so far. I have been busy the last day and a half so I haven't spent much time on this. I have new caps for the I/O board on order. Those should be here later this week. Still need to measure ripple on the supply voltages. And lastly, if anyone has a lead on a backplane board I'd be interested at a reasonable cost.

kmarrocco · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2021, 05:23:59 PM »

Just measured ripple with a meter. All measured less than 10mV with the exception of the 20V supply. It measures around 60mV. Is this ok?

Trisail · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2021, 07:06:19 PM »

I have a backplane board, I will send you a PM.

The 20mV on the '20V' supply is probably OK - That is probably the one for the 18VDC on the I/O board. It drives the lamps.

Tony

kmarrocco · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2021, 05:20:05 PM »

So here is the latest. Trisail had a new backplane sent to me. It didn't fix the sound issues I am having. I will have to continue to test the machine to tell if it improved the random errors I was getting periodically. Also, I happened to pick up a Stampede machine a couple of days ago, which I have working fine. I took the I/O board out of that machine and put it in the Big Bang Piggy Bankin machine and the sound issue did not go away. So at this point I am thinking it is something related to the main board. I have all new electrolytic caps for the main board on order, waiting for the shipment to come in a few days. Does anyone happen to have schematics of the sound related circuitry? Especially the section on the main board? Any other ideas are also appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Calfdemon · « **Reply #18 on:** March 26, 2021, 03:07:16 PM »

If the length of time (heating up) is affecting performance, then it sounds like you might have some cold joints at your solder locations. Maybe try reflowing the solder and see if that helps things. Here is what I have in my stash of info regarding sound components... Hope it helps.

kmarrocco · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2021, 08:26:18 PM »

Thanks for providing the information on the sound components on the I/O board....and also for the replacement reel you sent. As I mentioned, when I took the known good I/O board out of the jackpot stampede machine and put it in this one, the sound issue was still present. So I am thinking it is something on the mainboard. I have changed all of the electrolytic caps on the main board and it still did not fix the issue. Any other ideas of sound related components on the main board?

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Author Topic: WMS 400 Big Bang Piggy Bankin (Read 3881 times)