Author Topic: S+ Hopper Not Paying (Read 2492 times)

Disc Golfer · « **on:** November 03, 2021, 04:59:40 AM »

I have played this machine for about 10 years now. During play several months ago I tried to cash out and it spit out the winnings down to 2 coins and quit. There were plenty of coins in the hopper. I have read through this site many times and have done the following with no luck.
Performed the bench test and the hopper worked.
Attached a 9 volt battery to the SSR and when I installed the hopper it started working immediately.
When checking the voltage at the hopper plug I have 10 DCV on the top two slots, at the middle slots I have no voltage on the left one and 10 DCV on the right, and 110 ACV at the bottom.
I purchased and changed the motherboard, checked the dip switches to 1,2,3,4 on and 5,6,7,8 off with no luck. I guess having a spare is not a bad thing.
I went through the hopper settings to make sure it wasn't set at zero and it was set at 1000. I could not change it and I'm assuming it's because there are credits?
When I try to perform the self test on the hopper the spin button does not lite up. It does light up and work during other test.
I have removed and inspected all connections to the hopper and didn't see any corrosion or bent pins.
I'm sure I'm missing something simple and when the experts on this site tell me what that may be I will have a palm to the forehead moment.

A big thanks to all for this site and everyone who helps people like me who own these machines and just like to hit buttons, pull handles, and let the wheels spin away our worries if only for a moment.

Stayouttadabunker · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2021, 01:13:12 PM »

Are there coins caught behind the knife?

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2021, 07:02:55 PM »

No sir. The hopper works during every test I did on it. The best I can tell is the hopper is not being told to activate. But I donâ€™t know that.

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2021, 05:32:41 AM »

Have you checked the connections on the hopper electrical plug that is mounted on the floor of the cabinet

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2021, 06:29:01 AM »

I did. I looked at the male and female connections with a flashlight and mirror trying to find corrosion or bent pins and did not find anything. That's why I replaced the motherboard. In my mind I was convinced that was it. This machine has been in our spare bedroom except for the year it was in the garage while we repaired our home after flooding 4 years ago. So it worked for about 3 years after being dormant in the garage. Thank you for replying.

jay · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2021, 08:14:55 AM »

The hopper is pretty simple - power is applied, the solenoid on the back gets pushed out and releases the hopper brake, and the motor it spins.
When the optics tell the motherboard its reached the appropriate number of coins out power is cut.
A spring pulls the brake back into place (as the solenoid no longer has power) this stops it hard so no extra coins are dropped.

SO ....

If you bench test has it spinning this tells me that the solenoid is fine. You could manually try releasing the brake (wad of paper) and see if it spins - this will rule out that the solenoid is the issue.

That only leaves the electrical connections to the hopper - You can check the plug voltages with a multi-meter. ITs a big clunky connector you could try scraping it with a pen knife, running a white eraser over it and/or some good contact cleaner and see if that cures it.

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2021, 08:18:25 AM »

I will try everything you laid out this evening. Thank you for your ideas.

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2021, 08:55:33 AM »

Man am I stumped.

I tried everything Jay suggested along with performing a continuity check on the wiring going to and from the hopper/solenoid. All wires has continuity. I hooked up a 9V battery to the solenoid just to make sure the hopper still works and it did. I just don't know where to go from here. Could it be the board where the wires plug into? I just don't know.

jay · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2021, 09:48:36 AM »

Ok - so you know the hopper is good and as you changed the MPU board we can probably rule that out as well.

....have you checked all the fuses with a meter - it could be that your not getting power to the hopper ?

IF the fuses are good then I would go back to the hopper connector and put your meter probe in the socket to validate power during the hopper test.
If you get power to the meter then I would be re looking at the pins going to the hopper to make sure they are getting good contact.

Stayouttadabunker · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2021, 11:33:48 AM »

I'm wondering exactly which pins are you connecting a 9v battery?

Attaching the 9v battery to the SSR on certain pins releases the hopper brakes because the 115vac lines open to run the motor...I agree with that.

If so, check and see if you're getting the 115vac coming out of the relay on the other pins.

If not, then the red relay is shorted out and the hopper motor is NOT getting the 115VAC it needs...simple as that?

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2021, 12:12:31 PM »

Stayouttadabunker,
I am attaching the 9V positive to the upper and lower pins on the SSR and the negative to the middle one. I am getting 115v to bottom slots where the hopper plugs in. I hope this answers your question.

Jay,
I forgot to mention but I did check the fuses with a meter and am getting power. Since the hopper works when I install it with a 9V on the SSR there should be good contact? I guess. But will check.

Could the SSR be the problem not sending voltage when it is needed? Not sure how the SSR works but sure do appreciate the help.

Jim · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2021, 10:31:15 PM »

the SSR is nothing more than a Solid State Relay (thus SSR) it has two active control posts and a common post on the logic side, the other side are the relay contacts , one side is connected to the 115vac hot constantly, the neutral side of the 115vac goes directly to one side of the hopper motor, when the relay is energized the contacts make and puts the 115 vac hot to the other side of the motor and the motor turns on and runs. it is electromagnetic induction that actually pulls in the brake assembly and allows the motor to turn, when power is removed the induction is gone and the brake moves into place to stop the turning motor.

by putting 9 vdc to the relay, you are energizing the relay, closing the contacts, basically telling you the relay is working. but what you haven't figured out is why the machine is not telling the relay to energize.

on a working machine, in the test mode, hopper removed, I measured the dc voltage at position 1 and 2 of the SSR relay, zero volts dc.
when I ran the hopper test, (#3 in the coin played window) The voltage at position 1 and 2 measured 3.8vdc, the relay energized and I got my 115vac to the hopper plug.

the six contacts on the hopper plug don't have any relevance to the hopper working other than the bottom two pins, pin 11 bottom left as you look at the plug is 115vac neutral, pin 12 bottom right as you look at it is the 115vac hot when the relay is energized.

pin 7 top left is the hopper full signal back to the cpu (grounding moveable pin inside the hopper)
pin 8 top right is the coin optic count back to the cpu.
pin 9 center left is ground
pin 10 center right is +VB to operate the coin optics.

your hopper is good, your SSR is good, you have to figure out if the board is putting out the signal to the hopper, via the motherboard to the relay.

I set my hopper settings to zero, and got the same results when I ran the hopper test, so that setting has no effect.

what SP chip and SS chip are you using?

if you replaced the motherboard(the board the cpu board plugs into) then the only thing left is the cpu board.

I do have those available.

Jim

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2021, 05:22:49 AM »

Jim,
Thank you so much for your informative post.

So much to digest and your in depth explanation made it easy to understand. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into helping me solve my problem.
I am using SP 1048 and SS 3503 Red, White, and Blue 3 coin game. I am a little confused on what is a "motherboard" or a "CPU". I replaced the board the SP and SS chip plugs into. I believe that is the motherboard? If that is the case I would be interested in a CPU.

Jim · « **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2021, 10:06:05 PM »

more information to trace out the wiring. hopper #1 from SSR to J/P212 pin 8 to J10 motherboard pin 5 to p-2 10b and J-9 pin 8 to r23 to pin 9 of U-9

hopper #2 from SSR to J/P212 pin 7 to J10 mother board pin 6 to P-2 pin 10a to r22 to Pin 18 U23.

motherboard is the board on the bottom of the machine. the logic board, cpu board, 10meg board is the item you replaced. it contains the SP and SS chip, is mounted on a tray with a black knob,

Hope this helps

Jim

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2021, 01:26:18 PM »

It does help. Thank you. So, I replaced the CPU. Do you think the motherboard is the culprit? I can't find anything else wrong with it. Thanks again for your help.

jay · « **Reply #15 on:** November 12, 2021, 11:03:13 AM »

I really don't think its the motherboard.

There is no rocket science on the hopper. If it gets power it turns.

So with the hopper out, belly door open if you put your meter in the power slots, and cash out, if you get power then the issue is the plug on the hopper.

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #16 on:** November 12, 2021, 02:21:49 PM »

Thanks Jay. I will look that direction. When I apply a 9v battery to the SSR with the hopper out and when I install the hopper it turns on immediately. But I will check voltage at the plug during a cash out and see what I get. Thanks.

Stayouttadabunker · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2021, 02:44:09 PM »

Quote from: Disc Golfer on November 12, 2021, 02:21:49 PM

...I will check voltage at the plug during a cash out and see what I get. Thanks.

The best way to do this is to open the door, add a few betting credits via the service credit button on the coin-in optics and play some spins until you accumulate a few credits or so....all you need is one credit really.

When ready, push the multimeter probes into the bottom two holes on the hopper beau plug on the floor and then hit the cash-out button on the button deck.

Your multimeter should show a reading of somewhere around 115Vac until it the machine errors out because there's no hopper installed.

However, I think the problem is what Jay said above^^^....>>> "the plug on the hopper".

It's seems that perhaps one of the pins has a bad wire connection.

Could you show us a clear photo of your hopper wiring behind the plug in there?

It's really only four screws with springs and a hopper coin level bowl grounding bolt you remove to see things better.

Disc Golfer · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2021, 10:54:10 AM »

When I check voltage I get 120 volts at all times weather I cash out or not. Not sure how that works since the hopper doesnâ€™t work until I attach a 9v battery to the SSR. I pulled the plug from the hopper and took some pictures. Is that what you are looking for?

Stayouttadabunker · « **Reply #19 on:** November 13, 2021, 11:46:56 AM »

The connector (Orange w/White stripe) down next to the yellow one looks loose?

Something is not right with your SSR relay or the hopper wiring

I cannot check/compare until Tuesday, at the earliest...maybe Jay or another member can chime in?

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Author Topic: S+ Hopper Not Paying (Read 2492 times)