Author Topic: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only (Read 11711 times)

Amechanic · « **on:** August 18, 2016, 11:02:25 PM »

I have a Bally 809 that's giving my a small fit. It came in last week not working. First thing is that I have a broken coin switch solder tab for the 50v wire. I plug the machine in and touch the broken tab to the switch and flick the wire, nothing..

Then I see a huge mess.. Someone has sprayed white lithium grease in the handle gear box and on the top too.. Yea even the handle release contacts are full of the crap.

After replacing the coin switch with the only one I could find and swapping out the coin wire because the replacement too short, cleaning the handles contact, and performing basic cleaning and oiling I can now coin up the machine..

I continued to fix a few small problems as I found them, then this machine started to not alway want to advance the stepper when coins 2-3-4, or 5 were inserted. I did some read and found that after the first coins inserted, coins 2-5 use a different circuit... It runs thru those sprayed handle contacts. Jump ahead now.. I've cleaned the handle switches 3 times, the last time today I used a brake cleaner to get rid of what was left of the spray grease. Then I cleaned them again with Q-Tips and rubbing alcohol. They are squeaky clean now and meter goo with my VOM. I've cleaned the beau plugs, reels switches A B & C, and cleaned the stepper blade contacts and on the wiper board.. All the contacts in the top box stepper have even been cleaned, adjusted and meter check, BUT I STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM..

I do see the lower set of contacts spark when being coined up. When it does this that same relay pull down but not stepper advance. Could it be the coin switch I installed? I don't think it's off an other Bally, possible a different machine I parted out. I'm stumped with this problem. I thought it was fixed, but after taking a break and coming back to play it, the problem started again?? Am I missing something? Stepper wiper contacts and wiper board were cleaned with a green scotch bright, the wiper board the got a small amount of contact grease.
OldReno, Jon, or anyone else have an idea

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Jon · « **Reply #1 on:** August 19, 2016, 02:32:42 AM »

Gary when you wake up give me a call

Jim · « **Reply #2 on:** August 19, 2016, 07:50:12 AM »

Gary, after the first coin is inserted, the machine is reset from the previous coin up. if you advance the odds unit by hand, this should reset on the first coin, when the coin switch returns to the rest position it should energize the handle relay and its switches. the handle relay switches will flip and divert the next coin to the odds relay, it will stay energized through a set of its own switch contacts and the eos contacts of the odds unit. the other set of contacts of the odds unit will provide a path for the next return of the coin switch to pulse the odd step up unit ,which will advance the step up unit multipliers. your problem lies with one of the odds relay switch contacts, or the odds step up coil itself.

Jim

DavidLee · « **Reply #3 on:** August 19, 2016, 07:36:43 PM »

Check continuity within the pertaining switches. I thought I've had contacts clean, but still no continuity.
Also my old stand by low tech fix is to give the hopper and the reel mechanism some side to side and back and forth movement. Do this in between coining up.
From the photos the machine appears to be in great shape.
Keep us posted.

Amechanic · « **Reply #4 on:** August 19, 2016, 08:18:26 PM »

This is what I've seen happen today. I used a jumper wire on my coin switch from the 50V yellow common, to the center orange / green wire on the coin switch, N.O.. By doing this I don't have any misfires. It coins 2-5 every time.. It does the same thing if I manually close the odds relay, it coins 2-5 every time. I figured maybe my coin switch was questionable, but swapping it out didn't help my problem when I use coins, or flick the coin switch wire with my finger?? I see the odds relay close every time but I don't see the solenoid on the stepper try to pull in. To my trained eye and ears it seems that I don't have a strong pull on the odds coin every time? It's like it's not getting the full 50V or the pulse to the coil is too short? Does that make sence? I have a E51 switch in place and not the E53 it calls for.. What has me confused is that it coins up fine with a jumper wire but not thru the switch? Same problem with 2 different switches? FYI they were both E51 switches.

DavidLee · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2016, 06:21:03 AM »

Un-solder One side of the switch, add the jumper and manually test the machine like you did. Thus isolating the switch from the machine. Sounds like you've done this and the machine works perfectly. Then try putting the meter leads in between with the machine off to test for continuity. Then with the machine on check for the 50 volts AC.

Most switches have a 3rd wire and some have a resistor attached. I'll check my 809 later today or Sunday.

I have a machine that needs a little encouragement on the coin switch sometimes.
But in this situation it just stops working randomly. Its only happen a few times.
Using the handle side of a screwdriver I give it a couple of lite swift taps and the switch starts to work.

Amechanic · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2016, 03:48:21 PM »

Well I'm lost.. I've tested and taken apart and cleaned just about everything on this machine atleast twice and still can't get it to coin up consistently on coins 2,3,4&5.. Yet if I use a jump wire across the coin switch leads after coining up first coin, it never fails to count using the jumper wire? I've tried 3 different coin switches. Swiped the last one out of a machine in storage. What am I missing??

Where OldReno when you need him??

Gary

DavidLee · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2016, 05:24:06 PM »

Its going to be very interesting to find out whats up with the coin in situation.
Take a look at these photos from a working 809. Maybe there is something different.
The number on this switch is 7706C

Amechanic · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2016, 05:44:49 PM »

Nope.. The wiring colors, position and switch are all the same. This isn't my first rodeo, but this machine sure has me stumped. I can hear and see that the lower odds relay does cycle but the stepper doesn't alway advance. This happens only when running coin or when I flick the wire by hand, but like I've said if I use the jumper wire it works normally??

jimliner · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2016, 07:45:08 PM »

I just arrived at the slot rodeo. So dont be cruel. But. My 922 will occasionally not accept a 2-5 coin, the soleniods on step up fire & progressive meters advance. The coin line lite doesnt advance, coin isnt regestered. I read a thread that the end of stroke switch was firing to soon or late. I also traced through handle switch and cleaned a lot. In the thread i read a slight adjustment to switch and it worked for them.
Jim

DavidLee · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2016, 08:18:19 PM »

This is a strange situation, works on the first coin, but not the rest unless you use a jumper.

What about the NC side of the switch. if the NC side is activated before the NO side. This action of the switch would be eliminated by a jumper. Thus there might be a problem on the NC side. After the first coin the machine resets the step up back to 1 coin and this action might be causing the NC side to interfere with the NO side of the switch. It's a shot in the dark.

Never tested one of these switches to see what the sequence is. Would probably set up two meters one for the NC and the another for the NO to see what happens.
Very interested in the solution.

DavidLee · « **Reply #11 on:** August 20, 2016, 08:22:51 PM »

Jim,
You may be on to something.
Ride m cowboy

Gary said there was a lot of grease on the handle release area.

Amechanic · « **Reply #12 on:** August 20, 2016, 09:34:53 PM »

I have tried 3 different coin switches, so I don't think it's in that switch. I've been reading a trouble shooting guide tonight. It's a bunch of personal note by a former EM tech. It mentions checking for loose coils, tight springs, bad or weak coils. I wish that the EM handle releases assembly had a molex plug connector so I could that this one out to clean and rebuild it. I did clean it with a brake cleaner to get rid of all the spray grease, then cleaned the whole assembly with rubbing alcohol and Q-Tips, then took a burnishing tool to the contacts.
Jim, I'm not too sure it can be the end of stroke switch.. I have the feature unit on a extention cable. While watching it while coin up I have seen the odds relay close and the stepper not move. I've seen the stepper try to cycle and not. It acts like you mentioned a timing thing, but then I go back to how it works with the jumper wire.. Maybe tomorrow I dive back into the handle contacts. Maybe I have some grease some where causing a bad connection or a low voltage short.

DavidLee · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2016, 06:37:40 AM »

I'm wondering what would happen if you removed the NC wire on the switch just for testing.

just a thought, but not recommending any procedures that you feel it could possibly damage the machine any farther.

Amechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2016, 04:00:53 PM »

I'm beginning to think my problem lays in the feature unit. I took the handle contacts down and cleaned and adjusted them again. I took the lower contact loose and apart to clean them. I could not believe just how oil the still had on them. They work and read perfect. After that I tried to coin up again, but I still have the same issue. My odds relay fires but the stepper does not always advance. That when I noticed that the odds contacts close on the down stroke of the coin switch then the stepper would advance on the upstroke of the coin switch. I started tracing that orange/green wire thru the reels to the stepper. It seems that I trace that wire to the top center pin of the beau plug. When I attach my VOM to that pin I'm getting resistance on my meter. So there has to be a grounded wire or circuit. It dinner time now

Sunrise Side · « **Reply #15 on:** August 21, 2016, 07:01:52 PM »

Gary. I had a similar problem on a E1000. The coin guide at the cat whisker /trip wire was not the correct size for the coin the machine was using. It had been converted. When the coin went through it would not always push the cat whisker the entire stroke needed to trip the switch. The coin guide was too large. Installed the correct guide and it fixed it. Tim

Amechanic · « **Reply #16 on:** August 21, 2016, 08:59:01 PM »

Hey Tim, I checked that but that fine. I believe I have traced the problem to the contact on the odds relay. I took the odd unit apart looking for cold and bad solder joint. I fixed about a half dozen questionable ones in total. Cleaned and adjusted the contacts on the 3 relay stack. Put it all back together and had the same problem. I tried reducing the spring tension on the odds relay. That helped some

next I tried running the stepper with only 1 spring, no difference.. If I use the coin switch for the first coin, then push down on the odd relay it will count the 2-5 credits every time. Next I used a jumper wire instead of the relays contacts and it counter 2-5 again every time. So I have come to the conclusion that the problem is that set of contacts. Even tho they meter ok, they don't always transfer the voltage needed to fire the setup coil. Now to see if I have a set of contacts to replace those. I'm done for the night.

Gary

DavidLee · « **Reply #17 on:** August 22, 2016, 02:16:29 PM »

Gary, here is a video of the odds unit. Can't remember the problem, but I really had to clean the odds relay switch stack about 3 times really good.
I was tracing wires through the stack and found one set that needed a lot of cleaning before there was continuity. This is where the 74 wire leads to as you know.

https://youtu.be/tFzVjGmQcdE

Amechanic · « **Reply #18 on:** August 22, 2016, 04:02:39 PM »

David, I have cleaned, adjusted and metered out these contacts so many times. I took the odds relay apart again and cleaned and reformed and then took 360 & 600 grit wet sand paper to them. They were so smooth and clean, but no difference when reassembled..
David what size is the coil on your odds relay? I thing this one is a G31 2000.. If this relay works on coining up 2-5 when I push down on the relay, it makes me think the coils weak or wrong.. Maybe a little stronger coin would over come my problem, because I'm real close to beating the crap out of it.

DavidLee · « **Reply #19 on:** August 22, 2016, 04:49:30 PM »

Gary, think you solved the problem. The step up coil in this machines odds unit is a B25-925.
Double confirmation, its the horizontal coil I was reading.

Just in case the odds relay has a G31-1800 coil.

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Author Topic: Bally 809 sometimes failing to advance stepper with coins 2 thru 5 only (Read 11711 times)