S-Plus Coin Comparitor Wiring Harness

[ahamay2001]

I recently came into possession of an IGT S-Plus Black Cherry 3 reels that has an issue with the coin comparitor not accepting coins and with the door closed no light. The coin comparitor is the 24Vac with two grey wires and ABC Optic Board (753-051-00). I was able to find two different types of manuals that are conflicting on the pin out for connector J/P 50; A) Player's Edge Plus and S-Plus Electronic Repair Manual (821-126-01), and B) S-Plus Stepper Slot Field Service Manual (821-027-01), See attached. One utilizes the 24Vac on the hot side while the other utilizes the 24Vac on the return side. The harness that I have from the J/P 301 connector is 600-102-00, I'm not sure if this is the right harness for this setup but any help would be appreciated. I also want to note this is an S-Plus with the 10mhz MPU on the lower left hand side. Thank you, Dennis.

[Trisail]

Check the site for coin comparator problems to see if you can determine what checks you can do.

I'm going to say the harness in the machine is the right one. It should work. The AC return and AC hot is not really a problem. They label the schematics trying to follow standards. AC is not like DC , with a + & -. Controlling AC in the simplest terms - connect the load to AC hot and AC rtn and load works. So switch in the hot or rtn to turn on device (load). Not really polarized so to speak like DC. ( DC is the same principle, switch in + or switch in ground to turn on device (load) but DC is polarized). Not sure if that came across right, I may edit later.

We need more information on what the machine (coin comparator) is doing to help properly.

Are the coins falling through to the coin tray or going in to the hopper, but no credits displayed?
Are they going to the overflow?
Can you try the white test button on the optics board with the door open and get credits on the machine to play a test spin?
The door closed, no light issue. The credits inserted ( accepted) light? Which light?
Have you checked the wires on the coin comparator and optics board for bad connections?
Have you tried the test menus to see if the diverted is working? The lockout solenoid is working?

Tony

[ahamay2001]

Hi Tony,

Thank you for your response. I took the cover off the coin comparitor circuit board and noticed one of the larger resistors had overheated and discolored the board as well as dulled the color of the resistor. This is what lead me to start looking at the wiring harness and the pin out; Alternating Current per their drawings had me hung up on the specific hot side and common side. The following answers to your questions will hopefully narrow down the problem:

• Are the coins falling through to the coin tray or going in to the hopper, but no credits displayed - Falling into the front coin tray and not registering in the credits.
• Are they going to the overflow - Falling into the front coin tray.
• Can you try the white test button on the optics board with the door open and get credits on the machine to play a test spin - Yes, white test button allows for credits to be added and spins to be played. Credits paid and payouts are correct, credits continue to accumulate until cashed out.
• The door closed, no light issue. The credits inserted ( accepted) light? Which light - I get the insert coin light only.
• Have you checked the wires on the coin comparator and optics board for bad connections - I wiggled and inspected the wires to see if I had a partial connection.
• Have you tried the test menus to see if the diverted is working? The lockout solenoid is working? The diverter is working with the output test. I also ran the optics test and nothing registers on either test; Coin A, Coin B, Coin C.

I have another coin comparitor on the way since I had a suspicion that the burnt resistor was more than likely the cause but I did not want to plug the new unit in until I pinned out the wires. The mechanical bell output test did not work, not sure if this is an underlying issue or completely separate problem. 

Thank you,
Dennis.

[Trisail]

Sounds like you have it narrowed down to the cc.

Usually the axial aluminum electrolytic capacitor (220uf 25V) being replaced will fix the cc lockout solenoid, the metal 'rake' looking piece. A new cc should tell you for sure.

The diverter, the plastic piece below the cc, is the device that sends the coins to the overflow, sounds like it will work when the hopper is full.

The lockout is the device that sends the coins to the hopper, be sure that is working. Otherwise the coins fall to the coin tray, as yours is doing. Then the optics will put credits on the machine and allow play. The test button works so the machine should work with a new cc, or getting the lockout working. Try the capacitor if you have one available.

The bell is probably not installed in the machine. Most don't have them from what I've seen.

Tony

PS: The led on the cc won't be on with the door open, only when closed, or the lockout test is being performed, I believe.

[gameking6]

Are there coins in the hopper? The reason I ask is; a friend of mine bought a S+ with the same symptoms and no errors. With his it turned out the hopper was empty and in the middle of a pay out. He filled the hopper and when he turned it back on the machine started paying out and it was fine after that.
Welcome to the forum and here's to hoping it's something this simple.

[jay]

There could be lots of reasons that you dont' get a credit on your machine.
The door optics could be shot, so the slot doesn't think the door is closed  --- do you get a "insert coin" light and then the coin is rejected ?
The cash can door on the bill validator could be open - they usually take off locks on these before they are sold, so a small piece of duct tape or electrical tape to hold it closed is a good idea.

From an acceptance perspective.
The coin passes through the coin comparitor and then down through a coin optic.
On the bottom of the coin optic there is a tiny (tiny) white button that will put a test credit on the machine.
Does this work. Do you get the test credit and does it play ?

The CC-16 coin comparitor has a light and a sensitivity adjustment on it. The light will never come on with the door open.
Have you tried dialing down the sensitivity (all the way to the left  and then a 1/4 turn back) ?
I will also ask - is there a sample coin in the coin comparitor ? it can't compare if there is nothing to compare it too.
Often resellers will pocket these ... a quarter is a quarter.

[ahamay2001]

Hi Gameking6,

There are coins in the hopper but...the full probe wire is missing. Otherwise the coin hopper works as intended. I'll look to see where that has gone after I get one problem solved.

Hi Jay,

I have jumped out the door optics so that I could troubleshoot this problem a little easier. I have run the door optics test and the jumpers do work. I only have the coin comparitor, no bill validator. Little white button works to add credits and allows for regular play, insert coin light indicator also works. I do not get a credit added since the coin never makes it to the optics. I have replaced the coin comparitor today and there is a sample coin installed; supposed to be a working one, CC-16E.

This is what I have found so far after changing out the coin comparitor -

1)Found a bent connector at the J/P 203 connector pin 9 - Fixed, now have continuity up to the J/P 301 connector.
2)Running the diverter test works with no issues. However running the lockout test is another story. If I remove the CC and lay it horizontal the lockout will actuate, put it in vertical and nothing. I also get the green LED on the CC when pushing the test button. This leads me to believe I am getting a weak voltage on the pull, could there be a problem with the processor board? I would need to troubleshoot the board further unless there is a simpler solution.
3)I cleaned the optics on the optics board, all three test for the optics are registering so that is a plus. Coin A - Passed, Coin B - Passed, Coin C - Passed
4) I could shim the rake to see if it will add coins for now.

Thank you,
Dennis.

[Jim]

Dennis,  here is the operation of the CC-16 :

since you can operate the machine with the door open, remove the cover from the cc-16 to expose the circuit board. with the LED on, ( meaning you are getting 24vac on the black and yellow wires, measure the voltage across the big electrolytic cap, 220 micro farad at 35vdc.  It should be approximately 19.5 volts DC, if you have that, then the voltage is correct and in theory the CC-16 should work. If not , the cc-16 is probably bad.

was the cc-16 you purchased tested and said working?

Jim




 

[ahamay2001]

Hi Jim,

I only get 1.14 Vdc at the 220 micro farad / 35Vdc. I still get the ~24 Vac, its a little higher around 25Vac at J/P 301. The CC was sold as tested working.

Thank you,
Dennis.

[Jim]

forgive me when I ask this,  meter on DC scale,  red lead to plus side of cap, black lead to minus side of cap,  still 1.4vdc, replace the cap,  I generally use a 220 at 50 volt cap,  make sure it physically will fit ! not to round.

this should solve your problem>

Jim

[ahamay2001]

Hi Jim,

Yes, meter is on Vdc. When I run the self test for the lockout I can get the ~19 Vdc by holding down the reel button and the green light on the CC will also illuminate. It's almost acting like it is not getting that same signal (as it does in the self test) to the CC in normal operation.

Thank you,
Dennis.

[ahamay2001]

I would like to thank Tony for his help today as we tried to troubleshoot my problem over the phone. We have concluded that the lockout on the self test results in the same action on both of our machines where the LED light on the CC will illuminate but no action of the lockout with the exception that my CC still does not work. We also determined that the handle release coil was on all the time and causing the coil to overheat; the handle does not lock with coil connected or disconnected. The wires to the handle release coil were disconnected to further troubleshoot the CC which had no effect on the problem. I removed the motherboard and checked the pin outs for the handle release coil and CC lockout per the following: Handle Release Coil J/P10-12 to J/P6-5, J/P10-11 to D3, D3 to J/P2-14A & 14B, J/P 10-7 to J/P7-5 & 6; Lockout J/P1-28 to D1 & D1 to J/P2-18A, J/P1-29 to J/P8-5, JP8-6 to J/P2-17B, J/P10-7 to J/P7-5 & 6. There were no opens and low resistance, ~0 - .1 ohms.  I do not see any burnt traces around the motherboard or processor board so I am leaning towards there being an issue with the processor board.

[Jim]

the fact that the LED comes on and you get 24vac doing the lockout test and that the dirverter  works also tells me the 24vac is good and the 24vdc return provided by Q-17 and 18 is good also.

did you check to see if there is a screw or a coin lodged behind the connection of the handle solenoid and the machine back wall?

when everything is back together and the optics are not jumped, when you close the main door and latch it, what does the machine do?

there is 24vac hot at the handle solenoid, cc-16 and dirveter all the time, the board provides a 24vac return to operate the device.

Jim 

[Trisail]

On my working board - With the meter on diode check - (2K ohm) the only reading you can get is about .044 (.055) ohms between the 2 outer most leads. This is with the leads red/black and black/red (reversed) all the other readings of the pins are open/infinite resistance. 

Tony

[ahamay2001]

Good Evening Tony and Jim,

I have been troubleshooting this a little more and found out that I was losing the 24Vac to the CC harness (the one that connects J/P 301 to J/P 50). Upon securing the wire for test purposes and getting a steady 24Vac to the CC I can now get the diverter to move the coin to the hopper in the self test mode only. In game mode the coin still drops to the front tray. I am thinking the optics board is not sending the signal to the CC to operate the diverter. I swapped out the processor board with another and had the same issue so I think we can rule that out, so now I have two good boards.

Jim -

No coin on the lockout for the handle, it appears I may have to disassemble the handle and figure out why that is not working; that's for another day. Is it normal for this lockout to be power at all times until a coin is added? or should power only come one when the coin is added to unlock the handle?

Thanks,
Dennis.

[Trisail]

Good Evening Tony and Jim,

I have been troubleshooting this a little more and found out that I was losing the 24Vac to the CC harness (the one that connects J/P 301 to J/P 50).

I am having trouble locating J/P 301 and J/P 50 in the schematics tonight. I am sure these are the connectors for the CC, but...
If you are losing the 24Vac to the CC harness and \/

Upon securing the wire for test purposes and getting a steady 24Vac to the CC I can now get the diverter to move the coin to the hopper in the self test mode only.
 
I am confused. The CC has the 6 pin connector ( the one with 2 pins jumped ) it should have 24 Vac on pin 4 all the time, if the wire you secured accomplished that, then that is good. ( From the previous post from Jim we thought the 24Vac was good )  I will assume you you meant to say LOCKOUT not diverter ( the lockout sends coins to the hopper and the diverter sends coins to the overflow hole in the bottom of the machine - this would drop coins into a large bin in the locked stand the machine would sit on so the casino could collect them later. )  If you do the test mode for the lockout ( and the solenoid energizes ) and drop a coin in the coin drop slot it should go to the hopper. ( not the coin tray or the overflow hole )      If you did mean diverter and the coin made it into the hopper then we need to look at the wire you secured to get the 24Vac to the CC.

In game mode the coin still drops to the front tray.

That means the CC is not working. It's job is to use the sample coin installed where the coil is, so it can sense it and set up a signal of what a good coin should look like when dropped into the coin slot. The CC then compares the 2 signals - and if they are very close to the same signal - the CC will energize the lockout solenoid and allow the coin to go to the optics board - to sense that it passes through the 3 sensors at the proper timing and the optics board sends a signal to the MPU board to say a credit needs to be credited and allow a game to be played.

I am thinking the optics board is not sending the signal to the CC to operate the diverter.

That is not what the optics board does - the coil circuit in the CC sends the signal to operate the lockout.

I swapped out the processor board with another and had the same issue so I think we can rule that out, so now I have two good boards.

This is telling me that the CC is bad.

Jim -

No coin on the lockout for the handle, it appears I may have to disassemble the handle and figure out why that is not working; that's for another day. Is it normal for this lockout to be power at all times until a coin is added? or should power only come one when the coin is added to unlock the handle?

I would highly recommend NOT disassembling the handle - I believe it is mechanically OK. The problem is the MPU (or some other wiring/coil/connection problem is causing the handle release solenoid to be energized all the time. No the handle release solenoid ( not lockout ) should only be powered on when a game is ready to be played, as soon as the 'spin' button is pressed the handle release solenoid is turned off to inhibit a player from being able to pull the handle without adding more coins ( or betting a credit ) [ I used 'spin' in this case because the handle release solenoid is used to make the reel stop sound when the machine is programmed for that, instead of a sound sent to the speaker. Just wanted to let you know that the handle release solenoid is used for two purposes, it still is mostly off ( deenergized ) during normal play and off at power up. ] 

Thanks,
Dennis.

A lot of this explanation is for future reading of the post to help clarify the terminology. It is important to get the terminology correct, which only comes with time and experience. And help from members when answering posts. This will all make sense soon. We will get your machine working right. Keep up the good work you are doing, it will pay off.

Tony

[Jim]

You never answered my question, when you have everything back together and nothing is jumped or bypassed, what do the machine do when you close and latch the door?

do the reels do their maiden spin, left to right?
does the insert coin lamp come on?

I state this again, since you did the lockout test, the LED came on, you got 24 vac to the cc-16, you got 19.5 volts dc across the cap, then that circuit is working properly, IT IS THE ONLY CIRCUIT IN THE MACHINE THAT APPLIES POWER TO THE CC-16, there is no second circuit! HOWEVER, if the machine does not recognize that the door has been closed, that lock out signal will never be sent.

so, you have purchased a CC-16, and another board, what advice are you getting from the people that you are buying the parts from?

Jim   

[Trisail]

I agree Jim. I'm not sure what the optics bypass looks like, previous post says it worked in test mode.

It does sound like a door closed problem.

Dennis-
Put the door optics back in the machine, everything else back to normal.  Close the door and let us know if the machine initializes and the insert coin lamp is turned on. If so, the machine should take a coin and put credits on. I'm not sure what the securing the wire thing is about for the 24Vac. Try the above with that in place 1st. If the machine doesn't work, remove it and see what the machine does.

Tony

I will try to call you later.

[ahamay2001]

Good Evening Jim and Tony,

You both were absolutely correct, the way I jumped the optics was not correct and it was registering that the door was still open. Once I put the optics back in correctly everything works perfect. At this point, I'd like to think the original issue was just the CC and now that it has been replaced and the optics returned to normal this should conclude this problem.

Thank you again for all your help,
Dennis.

[Trisail]

Glad you got it figured out. Enjoy playing it.

Tony