809-ZZH not paying on triple bars first coin only.

[DavidLee]

809-ZZH   
5 line machine won’t pay on triple bars with one coin in.
It does pay on two or more coins.
All other Bar jackpots payout good with 1 to 5 coins inserted.
Need a link to the relevant schematic.

[wolftalk]

hi david,

the 809-ZZB should be really close.

schem is https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/809-ZZB/w-1046-1806%20-%20809-ZZB%20and%20809-ZM.png

other files like the odds disc diagram  are in the 809-B folder in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

looks like the only way you can get your problem is an issue with the odds unit connecting wires 18-2 to 14-3 at unit reset.  Jumping those wires at the odds unit lugs with one coin played should tell ya how wrong that guess is :-)

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk, thanks for the info.

Did as you prescribed, jumping 14 to 81.
Bypassing the odds unit and the 3 bars paid on the first coin.
Didn’t have time to thoroughly investigate the unit.
Would suspect a bad connection on one of the spider legs.
Maybe a broken wire on the backside of the contact rivet board.

I’ll check the diagram for the unit.

[DavidLee]

Referring to the odds unit.
See photo.

Manually closing what is labeled A for reference.
The triple bars will pay on the first coin

As these contracts close on the second coin and the triple bars pay normally. Reference A

[wolftalk]

huh ... something is odd there.

the two open-at-zero (reset) switches are in the circuit to fire the odds reset relay and the odds unit reset solenoid.  Neither switch should affect payout.

I missed the "other wins pay 1 coin correctly"... oops.

the unique thing about a single coin triple bar win is the odds unit wiper connection from wire 93-2 to 54 feeding the 200 trace on the outboard carriage.  Looks like the 200 trace is only used for a 1 coin triple bar win, and the other  triple bar wins use the 100 trace to pay the 200 coins, and the rest is paid by the attendant.

I guess likely place to look is the 200 trace circuit ... wire 54 from the odds unit to the 200 trace and the outboard wiper finger.

[DavidLee]

I’ll check the 200 pay circuit.
Yes, every payout is fine except for the first coin for 3 bars.

The payout terms on the front glass are confusing, but make sense for the machine
not to pay unless the jackpot is $20 or more.
I went with that theory and expected the coin lockout to reject a coin in this case.
But the machine took a coin.
So rejected that theory, because of the 200 pay or $10.
Will post photo of the pay terms on the reel glass later.

[DavidLee]

Pay terms.

Had to modify the photo size.

[wolftalk]

a triple bar win with 2-5 coins played causes the jackpot lockup relays to power.  When that happens, the multiplier circuit thru the odds disc is disconnected and the X2 payout circuit is connected.

so they use the 100 trace to pay the 200 coins, then the attendant has to doddle over and pay the rest in cash.

I'd guess the reason they didn't just connect all triple bar wins directly to the 200 trace and use the 1X pay circuit is flexibility.  Some casinos didn't pay any coins on >200 wins ... I guess to make it easy for the hand pays (you didn't have to subtract 200 coins worth of loot from the hand pay amount).

the more complex circuit made configuring the game to pay/not pay the first 200 coins of a bigger win trivial at the factory.

[DavidLee]

Thanks Wolftalk for your help on jumping the wire in the elimination process.

What we have here is the failure to communicate!

Did a little probing and found the wire was broken at the 200 solder joint.

[DavidLee]

Solder the wire back on and noticed one other wire that was just hanging on.
So made it right. Now the machine is working fine.