Bally 1114 3-coin coin reject issue.

[wolftalk]

Ok I'm back to this.
Well I'm an idiot! I had unsoldered the black/white wire instead of the white/black. And if I had just used the wire numbers as instructed, I would not have goofed up.
SO now... the wires are correct, I hope. And yes I left the other wire on the switch contact.
However, now it's back to just taking unlimited coins to the hopper but only registering one coin.
 

that's probably a different issue. 

after a spin, the first coin deposited should cause the coin relay to trip, and that in turn causes the handle release relay to trip.

after the handle release relay is tripped, the next coins cause the coin unit step-up relay to power, and that in turn causes the coin unit step-up solenoid to fire to step up the coin unit.  There's a bit of sequencing involved, so:

1] after a spin, push down/release the coin switch and verify the coin relay and handle release relay tripped.

2] if that's good, push and hold down the coin switch.  The coin unit step-up relay (not the step-up solenoid on the coin unit itself) should power.

3] when you release the coin switch, the coin unit step-up relay should stay powered and when the coin switch is up, the coin unit step-up solenoid should power.

4] when the solenoid plunger pulls in, the coin unit step-up arm switch with the 30 and 75-7 wires should open and the coin unit step-up relay unpowers.  That in turn unpowers the step-up solenoid and the coin unit wipers should rotate one position.

none of the above cares about what the lockout coil is doing, so  none of the changes you made should effect it.  Even the 85 vs 58-3 wire oops would only effect coin unit reset.

[shortrackskater]

that's probably a different issue. 

after a spin, the first coin deposited should cause the coin relay to trip, and that in turn causes the handle release relay to trip.

after the handle release relay is tripped, the next coins cause the coin unit step-up relay to power, and that in turn causes the coin unit step-up solenoid to fire to step up the coin unit.  There's a bit of sequencing involved, so:

1] after a spin, push down/release the coin switch and verify the coin relay and handle release relay tripped.

2] if that's good, push and hold down the coin switch.  The coin unit step-up relay (not the step-up solenoid on the coin unit itself) should power.

3] when you release the coin switch, the coin unit step-up relay should stay powered and when the coin switch is up, the coin unit step-up solenoid should power.

4] when the solenoid plunger pulls in, the coin unit step-up arm switch with the 30 and 75-7 wires should open and the coin unit step-up relay unpowers.  That in turn unpowers the step-up solenoid and the coin unit wipers should rotate one position.

none of the above cares about what the lockout coil is doing, so  none of the changes you made should effect it.  Even the 85 vs 58-3 wire oops would only effect coin unit reset.

I'm officially lost.
The coin relay powers when a coin inserted, or when I flip the switch. The handle unlocks. Any further flip of switch does absolutely nothing.
Did I mis-wire something? What bothers me is that before I did all this, the machine DID take three coins and step up properly. It just kept taking money to the hopper after the third coin.
I APPRECIATE all this help, but at this point, I'm ready to just undue everything I did and return it back to before - if I actually can. I know you had me bend some of the contacts to change the open/close setting.
My brain seems to be wired more for digital circuits and old mechanical machines. 

[wolftalk]

is the coin lockout coil behind the coin mech staying powered after the first coin is inserted (the game accepts the coin, but the coin unit doesn't step up)?   

it's actually kinda irrelevant because the nothing you were changing should affect the coin unit step-up, so undoing any of that stuff shouldn't solve the problem.

what's supposed to happen on the first coin after a spin is the coin relay trips and that in turn causes the handle release relay to trip.   Sounds like that's working.

the coin unit should reset if it's not already) and the 1st coin lights should be on.

the next coin should cause the coin unit step-up relay to power, and a switch on that relay causes the coin unit step-up solenoid to fire which steps up the coin unit when the solenoid unpowers.

the only thing in the circuit between the coin switch 23-1 wire and the coin unit step-up relay is a handle release relay switch (23-1 to 61-1 after the handle release has tripped) and plug connections.

I dunno where the coin unit step-up relay is on a lowboy game or if it's the old style open relay or a "ice cube" style relay.  The relay coil will have wire 70 and 61-1 on it tho.  David Walz should know since he has a 1114 disassembled at the moment. 

[update] ... looks like from a picture david sent me the coin unit step-up relay is next to the reel 3 wiper board and it's a old-style relay.  If you clip a jumper onto the 61-1 coil wire and touch the other end to wire 30 on the coin switch, the relay should power and cause the coin unit to step up.


another test ... assuming you don't hear the coin unit step-up relay powering when you push down the coin switch after the first coin ... is attach voltmeter probes to 61-1 on the handle release relay and 70 on any handy 50V coil (like the coin diverter), then hold down the coin switch and see if you get 50VAC after the handle release is tripped. 

if you do get 50V on 61-1 on the handle release relay switch, move the probe to 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay coil and see what you get.

[shortrackskater]

Coin lockout is staying powered. No step up after any coin inserted (or switch flipped) afterward.
First coin light stays on.
I can manually rotate the coin wiper board slowly and it steps up to third coin then lockout activates (powers off)
I'm adding two photos to make sure I'm jumping the correct points. I'm 99.9% sure this is correct.

[wolftalk]

yup, those are the right points.

you don't want to clip both ends of the jumper on, you just want to briefly connect those two points together.  When you connect, the solenoid powers and pulls in the plunger.  When you disconnect, the solenoid unpowers and that's when the wipers turn.

you should be able to manually step up and reset the coin unit by operating the solenoid plungers.  If you have the ratchet in wrong or the pin switches not positioned properly wrt to the peg sticking out of the rachet, the solenoids might fire but the ratchet can't move due to mechanical interference and the plungers may not pull back out of the coils.

your second pic in post #31 is the reset position of the unit with a peg pushing some of the switch blades.

usually you can at least hear the coin unit step-up relay powering when you depress the coin switch the second time.  If you hear nothing, your problem is likely the handle release relay switch or plug connection, and less likely the coin unit step up relay coil itself.

the wiring changes you made are controlling the lockout coil correctly(ish), so you're good there.

[shortrackskater]

Ok I briefly jumped the two points. And yes it does step up!

What is my next step? The more I work on this, the more I realize the insanity of EM machines and troubleshooting.

This?
"another test ... assuming you don't hear the coin unit step-up relay powering when you push down the coin switch after the first coin ... is attach voltmeter probes to 61-1 on the handle release relay and 70 on any handy 50V coil (like the coin diverter), then hold down the coin switch and see if you get 50VAC after the handle release is tripped. 
if you do get 50V on 61-1 on the handle release relay switch, move the probe to 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay coil and see what you get."

And again, I'm sorry I have to be have my hand held in doing this. I am learning but also easily confused with this dang thing.
I'll try and make up for it in my behind the scenes work here!   

[wolftalk]

you can do that test or use a jumper wire some more ... both work.

below is the circuits you care about:

1] the red highlight is the circuit that isn't working

2] you proved the coin unit step-up coil works by jumping the not-wire-70 lug on the coil to wire 30 - the green line

3] the only thing left in the circuit is the coin unit step-up relay switch, the coin switch and plug connections.  Since the handle release relay works, the coin switch itself is ok (handle release is fed from wire 74-1), so one or more of:

a] the coin unit step-up relay switch isn't working
b] plug connections are bad
c] the coin unit step-up relay is not powering when the coin switch is depressed - yellow circuit

since ya have a jumper, you can connect one end to 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay (next to reel 3 wiper board) and with the reels back in, touch the other end to wire 30 on the coin switch.  The coin unit step-up relay should power, which in turn should power the coin unit step up coil.

if that works, the red circuit is ok and your problem is the yellow circuit.  If it doesn't work, problem depends on whether the coin unit step-up relay powered.

if using a voltmeter, you can stick one probe on wire 70 and poke around anywhere in the 50V circuits you care about and see if the meter says 50VAC.  If it does, you have a closed circuit path from your probe to wire 30.  If you get a much lower voltage, you have an open circuit or a cruddy connection if the circuit is supposed to be closed.

e.g. if you put probes on wire 70 and 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay, you should not get 50V because the coin switch is not connecting 30 to 23-1 when the tripwire is up.  If you push down the tripwire, then you should see 50V IF the handle release relay is tripped so it connects 23-1 to 61-1.

make sense?

[shortrackskater]

"since ya have a jumper, you can connect one end to 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay (next to reel 3 wiper board) and with the reels back in, touch the other end to wire 30 on the coin switch.  The coin unit step-up relay should power, which in turn should power the coin unit step up coil."

This was what I did just and yes, it steps up properly, then locks out. I'm not sure what you meant about "with the reels back" as they were in when I did the test.

"e.g. if you put probes on wire 70 and 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay, you should not get 50V because the coin switch is not connecting 30 to 23-1 when the tripwire is up.  If you push down the tripwire, then you should see 50V IF the handle release relay is tripped so it connects 23-1 to 61-1."

Placed my meter on those exact points. I get 0 voltage. When I depress the coin switch I get about 37 volts.

[wolftalk]

I think you can delete post 68+

your status as of post 67 is the coin unit and it's step-up solenoid coil works properly, but the game is not powering that solenoid when it should.

that's the job of the coin unit step-up relay on the reel mech, so you need to figure out if the relay is not working, a switch on it is bad, or there's a wiring/plug issue.

just to make sure:
- a solenoid coil has a hole through it and a plunger sucks into the coil hole when the coil is powered. 
- a relay coil has a flat(ish) top and a metal armature plate pulls down onto the coil top when the coil is powered. 



yeah, 68 thru this post aren't really relevant since they assumed a different jumper wire location.

if ya wanted to dredge anything from those posts, it'd be this:

if you jumpered from 61-1 on the reel 1 microswitch to 60-5 on the coin unit step up solenoid coil and things worked, then it's a pretty safe bet the molex connector to the handle release relay and the reel mech beau plug are ok.

the 61-1 wire from the beau plug pin to the coin unit step-up relay could still have a problem at the beau plug, but it's not likely.

[shortrackskater]

Ok we've gone back in time to Aug 20. Hey wait... does that mean I have to have ANOTHER birthday? 

Sorry I sound lost (I am somewhat), but where are we at this juncture? Back troubleshooting in the reel mechanism area?

[wolftalk]

your problem is getting the coin unit step-up relay circuit to work right (lower relay next to reel wiper 3 board).

do this:

1] remove the reel mech
2] jumper orange wire 70 from a coil on the door or the handle release coil to wire 70 on the coin unit step-up relay coil
3] jumper 61-1 on the coin unit step up relay and touch it to yellow wire 30 on the coil switch

does the relay power?

if yes, remove those jumpers and jumper 61-1 on the reel 1 microswitch to 61-1 on the coin unit step-up relay.  Shove reels back in and coin the game to reset, then manualy push down/release the coin switch.    Do the odds step up?  If not, do you hear the coin unit step-up relay powering when you push down the coin switch?