Bally 1168 Lucky Stars (Australian)

[Rod71]

Helping out a guy with a Lucky Stars.  Pretty straight forward 4 reeler with no feature or hold and draw.  But it pays in both directions.

He says it seems to be working fine besides not paying on certain pays.

Example it won't pay out on

10 - - -
- - - 10
10 10 - -
- - 10 10

But it will pay on 10 10 10 10

This led me to believe it may have something to do with the payout stepper on the hopper, as the non paying combos paid 2 and 5

Hopper seems to be working fine as far as stepping up and returning to home goes.  But wondering about only one zero position switch?

So where it gets interesting is that I asked him to set up some other pays to see if they are working.  JJJ KKK AAA etc., he came back and said KKK from the left didn't pay.  So now I'm thinking we might have a wiring / connection issue.

Without schematics I'm wondering what the next move should be.

Inspect beau plugs male and female on mechs and cabinet for broken wires etc.  After that I'm not sure. Set up a pay that doesn't pay and check continuity from the index boards to the plugs?

Thanks in advance

Rod

[wolftalk]

given the left-right pay and large number of pays, are there diodes in the game - usually on the reel wiper boards?

if yes, that'll complicate checking a circuit path for a win since you can't just verify a path from wire 90 (probably) to a payout trace when you set up a winner. 

you'll likely need to trace a pay and basically draw the schem from the reels to the payout counter yourself.  Usually the low pay wires on the payout counter go directly to reel 1 wiper board, so that should help.

[Rod71]

given the left-right pay and large number of pays, are there diodes in the game - usually on the reel wiper boards?

if yes, that'll complicate checking a circuit path for a win since you can't just verify a path from wire 90 (probably) to a payout trace when you set up a winner. 

you'll likely need to trace a pay and basically draw the schem from the reels to the payout counter yourself.  Usually the low pay wires on the payout counter go directly to reel 1 wiper board, so that should help.

I'm helping the guy online, so i'll get some pics of the wiper boards over the weekend.  See if there's any diodes there.  I've seen the contact side and they look a bit manky, so I told him to clean them up to begin with

Whats up with the single zero switch on the hopper?.  I understand they were revised over the years.  This one is from 1979

[wolftalk]

you mean the mangled vertical switch?

it's not really a zero switch because it can't be used to detect reset vs. step 1+ of the payout counter.  The carriage movement isn't that fast or precise.

my 929 has a similar switch called "open after 20 carriage switch".   It's used in the payout circuits, and could be the guys problem as it should be closed during low pays.  It won't open exactly at step 20 of the payout counter, but in his game it probably should be closed thru 18 steps of the payout counter.

[Rod71]

Oh wow, ok.  Are you referring to the switches in the pic below?

I was talking about the single switch on the green plastic thingy above it.  The 2 hoppers I have here both have a double switch there.

Anyway, I didn't take much notice of the switches pictured. They do look a bit bent out of shape.  I'll ask him over the weekend to step up and return home and see how they are behaving.  Both of my hoppers don't have them, so I'm guessing they are game specific.

[wolftalk]

the carriage switch should look like the below pic.

the zero switch on almost all games disconnects the payout counter reset coil so it doesn't fire if the counter is already reset. 

on a few games, there's an extra blade on the zero switch so it's a SPDT / make-break switch.  Most games that need more switches that open/close when the payout counter is reset use the reset pawl switch stack on the ratchet side of the payout counter.

what games do your hoppers with the extra switch go in?

[Rod71]

Interesting!
The games that I have here are Circus and Golden Gate which are essentially the same game but different art, so that makes sense.

OK now for the vertical switches.  Your pic shows them in a state with the hopper stepped up to 20 or there about?

Just wondering if I should suggest to him to set his switches up like yours.  Left side closed, right side open. 

That pic is amazingly helpful.  Thanks so much for that!

[wolftalk]

my pic is with the payout counter reset.

my switch is actually poorly adjusted.  The two blades on the right should be more-or-less touching each other until near the top when the contact nub holds them apart. 

note they are sandwiched together in the stack, and the right blade has no contact on it ... it's just there to add some resistance when the long blade start pushing against the other blades.

anyway, as long as the long blade contact opens around step 20 of the payout counter, that should do it.

your extra zero switch on the tunnel games is either for the hold-n-draw or the tunnel stop coil - depends on the wire colors on the switch.  The 931 schem is ambiguous.

[Rod71]

Excellent. Thanks so much.  I'll pass that on and report back.   

[Rod71]

Just a final update with this one.  The owner reports that it was indeed the mangled vertical switches.  Adjusted correctly and it's paying the smaller pays as it should.  Good result!  Big thanks to wolftalk