Bally 931 Circus (Australian)

[Rod71]

the white wire connects all the outboard fingers together.  The most important wiper finger is the second one down from the top ... that's on the (F)eed trace that goes to the payout relay.  If that isn't contacting the trace, none of the 100, 150 or 200 pays will detect.

Yep, that is exactly what the issue was.  I thought it was odd that all 3 wouldn't work, and figured they had to be related somehow

the hold-and-draw is surprisingly simple.  Hopefully all the pieces are still on the reel mech and you just need to reconnect the button wires.  There's exploded parts diagrams for the hold-n-draw in the bally 2600 manual, but how it actually locks the reels I don't remember.

The 3 hold coils are there, as well as the cancel coil. There's 3 wires cut from the dashpot switch.  So as well as the hold feature not working, the insert coin light comes on as soon as you pull the handle, instead of at the end of the cycle.


Generally, people cut wires for a reason.  The chances of it working after reconnecting the wires are slim I'm thinking.  Oh,  The wires to the jackpot bell were cut as well.  I hooked them up, but it still doesn't work.  Haven't looked into that one yet.

[wolftalk]

post pics of what's cut if ya get stuck.


disabling hold-n-draw may have been done just to reduce the game payback percentage.


if you can post pics of how the hold actually works, that'd be great too.

[Rod71]

disabling hold-n-draw may have been done just to reduce the game payback percentage.

I was thinking that.  But you'd think it would have a negative effect on takings if the main feature of a game is disabled.  Although these Bally machines have a dubious history in Australia.  Brought in by organised crime syndicates with links to the mafia in an attempt to take over from the existing Australian companies (Aristocrat and Jubilee) as the slot machine industry wasn't regulated at the time.

[Rod71]

Hmmm, interesting issue just popped up.  It's starting to give 2 pulls for 1 coin.  The coin accepted light comes on just as the reels kick, and it lets you spin again.  It doesn't keep doing it though.  You need to coin up every second pull.  It's also a bit random but getting worse.  The only thing I have done is remove a door plug so I could get behind the belly glass and change the bulbs to 47s

[wolftalk]

coin accept light turns on when the coin relay on the left/bottom of the reel mech trips.


see if there's a problem with it latching up ... it gets physically reset by a linkage that moves when the main shaft that winds up the mechanism turns.


your reels may be kicking too early and the coin relay is not getting latched up.  The handle release is a side effect of the coin relay being tripped.


the kick timing is controlled by an L-shaped stop bracket on the bottom/right/back edge of the reel mech.  If the bracket is too far back, the reels kick early.  bracket too far forward and the handle bottoms out before the kick - and is stuck down ... you have to manually release the handle or move the latch pawl with a long screwdriver to kick off.


the manuals usually have pages with lots of dimensions and adjustments for the right side of the reel mech.    All that really matters is the long shaft with the spring around it is adjusted so the peg on the front gears slides into the handle fork, the forward nut on that shaft is adjusted so there's a little free play before the back stuff moves, and the stop bracket is positioned so the game kicks when the handle is almost all the way down.  If you have to slam the handle down to get the kick off, the stop bracket needs to go back a bit.


that back edge of the stop bracket is usually aligned with the unit frame edge or a little bit forward of the edge.

[Rod71]

coin accept light turns on when the coin relay on the left/bottom of the reel mech trips.


see if there's a problem with it latching up ... it gets physically reset by a linkage that moves when the main shaft that winds up the mechanism turns.

Bingo!
Cleaned some crud off it and it's good to go.  Interesting if that happened out in the field back in the day.  Not like anyone would report that they are getting 2 for the price of 1.  Though crud build up wasn't likely while they were in service I guess.


On another note.  How available is top glass and reel glass for these old girls?.  Do people repro them like pinball backglass?.  How about the metal belly glass frame?

[wolftalk]

the cabinet parts like the belly glass frame are usually easier to find than the glass itself.  Rechroming is also an option.


I think coos has done some slot glass - Bally Bingo specials (coos.net) - it's not a cheap process, but all your glass is unique.

other pinball repro guys are worth a shot too, but pay attention to how they are doing it and what compromises result - usually colors that aren't as bright.

[Rod71]

Bingo!
Cleaned some crud off it and it's good to go.  Interesting if that happened out in the field back in the day.  Not like anyone would report that they are getting 2 for the price of 1.  Though crud build up wasn't likely while they were in service I guess.






Ugh. Famous last words lol.  It was working great yesterday, but today it's started acting up again and is now pretty much stuck on free play.  With the mech out the coin relay latches itself without an issue, either by hand, or manually cycling the mech (damn you gotta push hard lol)  I have a feeling there's a dirty/now stuck switch somewhere.  The switches on the coin relay look and operate as they should.
I made a video of the relay snapping back to coin accepted as the reels kick.
https://youtu.be/dS5D6plMexk


Oh I think I have confirmed it's electrical and not a mechanical issue.  So when it's in coin accepted mode, I switch the machine off, pull the handle and it goes to game over mode and locks the handle.  Switch the machine back on and it goes directly to coin accepted.

[wolftalk]

the only thing powering the coin relay is the coin switch....coin trip wire isn't stuck down (or not raising all the way up), is it?  Usually you can hear it click when you move the trip wire down/up.



there's a switch on the coin relay with blue/red wire 21-1 and black/yellow wire 83 going to the coin relay coil.  Switch not shorted to adjacent blades?   Try putting paper between the contacts and seeing if the coin relay stops tripping.


check the reel plug wire 21-1 for issues.  If that looks ok, check the door plug.


you can also stick a voltmeter on wire 21-1 on the coin switch.  Other probe on orange wire 70 - coin diverter coil is a handy place to poke that wire.  You should only see 50VAC when the coin switch trip wire is down. 

[Rod71]

the only thing powering the coin relay is the coin switch....coin trip wire isn't stuck down (or not raising all the way up), is it?  Usually you can hear it click when you move the trip wire down/up.

Is the coin switch on the left of the coin mech?.  there's no wire as such, just a microswitch which doesn't appear to be stuck. *see attached pic)  There's a microswitch with trip wire below it which appears to advance the counter on the reel mech when activated when it's already coined up.

there's a switch on the coin relay with blue/red wire 21-1 and black/yellow wire 83 going to the coin relay coil.  Switch not shorted to adjacent blades?   Try putting paper between the contacts and seeing if the coin relay stops tripping.

It looks ok https://youtu.be/VIRW8lGDi1I I've only cleaned the switches with alcohol and a business card, as I don't have the proper file.  I put a piece of paper between the contacts on the first switch and it stopped the relay tripping when I put the mech back in.

check the reel plug wire 21-1 for issues.  If that looks ok, check the door plug.

Yep, wire 21-1 looks good on the reel plug.  This issue started sporadically after I removed the door plug (pic attached) to remove the belly glass.  It's progressively gotten worse and now it's stuck.  I've removed the plug and it looks OK.  I've cleaned the pins and reseated it without any luck.

you can also stick a voltmeter on wire 21-1 on the coin switch.  Other probe on orange wire 70 - coin diverter coil is a handy place to poke that wire.  You should only see 50VAC when the coin switch trip wire is down.

Yep, I'll hive that a try once I verify where the coin switch is lol
Edit.  OK, so the coin switch is indeed the same switch that advances the meter on the reel mech.  Trip wire is in position and travels fine.

[wolftalk]

Yep, wire 21-1 looks good on the reel plug.  This issue started sporadically after I removed the door plug (pic attached) to remove the belly glass.  It's progressively gotten worse and now it's stuck.  I've removed the plug and it looks OK.  I've cleaned the pins and reseated it without any luck.

aha!   ok, I have no idea why that would matter, but pull the door plug again and see what the coin relay does.  If it stops tripping, stick your meter probe on the 21-1 wire in the plug and wire 70 and see if you have 50V.

the coin switch could be bad, but it'd be unusual to fail by shorting 21-1 to 74-1 (orange/green).   If the coin relay is tripped, you can with power off use an ohmeter between those two wires on the coin switch and see what you get.  Should only have zero ohms when the trip wire is down.

also look at the wiring harness from the plug to the coin switch and make sure 21-1 isn't shorting to something (insulation cut be sharp edge or wire at coin switch shorting to adjacent terminal.

just to make sure, the trip wire tip isn't touching the mech frame and stopping it going up all the way?  You can bend the wireout a little if it is too close.


don't know what the other microswitch on the side of the coin mech frame is doing.  Where do the white/blue wires go?

[Rod71]

Ha! Go figure.  The door plug which is above the one I removed holds the 21-1 wire.  I removed that plug and the wire just popped straight out of the connector lol.  I'm not sure what pins are required for these, or if i'll need a tool to extract the old pin.  So I might just bypass the plug with a quick connect for the time being.


Not sure whats going on with that other microswitch. The wires lead to a 3rd door plug thats free floating below the other 2.  I don't believe it shows up on the schematic.  Well I don't recall seeing a 3rd door plug pinout anyway.  Edit. OK there is a 3rd plug on the schematic with 3 wires.  These 2 white and blue (52) wires are on pins 5 and 6 on the plug. Hmm

[Rod71]

Hmmm, well that wasn't the issue.  Connected the 21-1 wire for the top plug and there was no change.  So did a bit of experimenting and narrowed it down to the plug below it.  The one I removed when taking off the belly glass.  So I started with everything connected.  removed top plug with wire 21-1.  Besides a few lights not coming on, the coin relay kept tripping after every spin.


Reseated top plug and removed the one below it.  Coin relay stopped tripping, but obviously won't coin up.


Plugged both back in.  With machine off, played the outstanding spin to latch the coin relay.  When you power back on, it will coin up once and then get stuck after the first spin.  Actually ignore that.  Just tried it again and it latched as soon as I powered on. hmmm

[Rod71]

Yep, wire 21-1 looks good on the reel plug.  This issue started sporadically after I removed the door plug (pic attached) to remove the belly glass.  It's progressively gotten worse and now it's stuck.  I've removed the plug and it looks OK.  I've cleaned the pins and reseated it without any luck.

the coin switch could be bad, but it'd be unusual to fail by shorting 21-1 to 74-1 (orange/green).   If the coin relay is tripped, you can with power off use an ohmeter between those two wires on the coin switch and see what you get.  Should only have zero ohms when the trip wire is down.

I think we're on to something!  Definitely not zero ohms when I test it as suggested.  It's starting to make sense now.  When I had the belly panel glass of to change out the bulbs.  I (stupidly) switches the machine on to see if all the bulbs were good.  As the lamp insert panel is half hanging out from the door at this stage, I can see how that switch could have shorted out.  ugh!

[Rod71]

Oh man.  I think I'm getting close
It's actually wire 91 on the coin switch NC side that is the issue.  When the door plugs are plugged in, the NC side of the switch is staying closed when you push the wire lever down.  When you remove the 2nd door plug, 91 on the coin switch opens as as it should when pushing the wire lever down.  So the actual switch seems to be OK  ....Edit - However, with the second plug removed and game powered back on and handle pulled. The coin accepted light comes back on after you pull the handle, but of course the coin relay won't latch until you reseat the door plug and power up.

[wolftalk]

uh-oh ... back up a bit :-)


there's three wires on the coin switch:


- 74-1 should be on the common terminal and connects back to neutral wire 30 on the transformer thru reel mech A-1 switch.
- 91.  with trip wire up, 74-1 connects to 91 on the coin switch
- 21-1.  with trip wire down, 74-1 connects to 21-1.


21-1 should never connect to 91.  If you want to check with an ohmeter, either pull the reel unit or make sure the coin relay is tripped then there won't be a path thru coils makes it look like 21-1 and 91 are connected.  If you were using a continuity tester or buzzer and didn't make sure the roundabout path was broken, you may see continuity/buzz depending on how much resistance the tester thinks is ok


just to make sure ... there's a wire color code chart on the top left of the schem.   21 (or 21-x) is a blue wire with red tracer stripe.  91 is grey/red.


dunno if 51-1 is a typo in your post.  There is a 51-1 (white/red wire).  It's in the handle release circuit and goes from a coin relay switch to a dashpot switch.


the insert is the board in the top compartment.  It has a wire 51 which is also white/red.  It is NOT the same wire as 51-1.  That's what the -x part of the wire id is for.  There's not enough wire colors combinations to have every wire unique, so they used the same color wire multiple times.   Without the schematic, tracing the wire or carefully using a meter, you can't tell if the same color wire attached to two places is the same wire.


unless you have a short, the only way for the coin relay to electrically trip is to connect wire 83 on the coil terminal to wire 30 somehow.  The normal path is up thru a coin relay switch to wire 21-1 and the coin switch to wire 74-1 and thru reel mech A-1 switch to 30.


if you're getting stuck and have a soldering iron, you can detach wire 21-1 from the coin switch and see if the coin relay stops tripping.  If it does, something is wrong with the coin switch.  If the coin relay keeps tripping, wire 21-1 or 83 is getting shorted someplace.

[Rod71]

dunno if 51-1 is a typo in your post.  There is a 51-1 (white/red wire).  It's in the handle release circuit and goes from a coin relay switch to a dashpot switch.

Dammit. Yes you are right.  I have pretty ordinary eyesight and thought the grey and red wire was white and red. Ugh. 


I will read over you post again tomorrow, as it's beer time now   Thank you so much, you're a champion


For what it's worth I edited my previous post to reflect wire 91 instead of 51 lol.  Makes sense now.  Was wondering how a white/red wire was leaving the door

[Rod71]

if you're getting stuck and have a soldering iron, you can detach wire 21-1 from the coin switch and see if the coin relay stops tripping.  If it does, something is wrong with the coin switch.  If the coin relay keeps tripping, wire 21-1 or 83 is getting shorted someplace.

OK, so mulled over your post and it makes more sense now.


21-1 just runs from the coin switch to the first switch on the coin relay.  When it opens it transfers to 83 which is attached to one side of the coil.


I have the 21-1 wire bypassing the door plug as the wire popped off the pin the other day when I was checking it out.  So I didn't need to desolder it from the switch, I just removed it from my quick connect from the switch side.  Yep, coin relay still latching.


So if that is the case, you're saying the issue is with 21-1 shorting somewhere, or 83 but that seems less likely as it just goes from the relay switch to the coil and is tiny.  I had a quick look at that and nothing seems to be odd there.  I'm still thinking back to the removal of the belly glass having something to do with it.  I might remove it again and see whats going on behind there.  Looks like 21-1 goes around behind the coin mech in the loom.

[wolftalk]

21-1 just runs from the coin switch to the first switch on the coin relay.  When it opens it transfers to 83 which is attached to one side of the coil.

not sure how to interpret "when it opens" on this side of the equator :-)


when the coin relay is reset, 21-1 connects to 83.  As soon as the coin relay trips, 21-1 disconnects from 83 to remove power from the coil.  On the 931, the coin switch trip wire raising back up after the coin is past it does the same thing.


what's the purpose of the coin relay switch connecting 21-1 to 83?   I dunno.   On most games wire 21-1 goes off to other places and the circuit stays powered thru other switches.  For those games, the coin relay switch to disconnect the coil makes sense - no reason to keep power on the coil when it doesn't need it. 


seems like they left the switch in to minimize changes from other games.


anyway, yeah, if the coin relay coil is powering when 21-1 is disconnected from the coin switch, either 21-1 or 83 is shorted to something else.  Could be in the beau plugs, the model plugs to the door, the wires are cut into and touching something else, or the switch blades on the coin relay are mangled.


from what ya said, wire crushed someplace and cutting thru the insulation seems most likely.

[Rod71]

Finally! 


So after getting annoyed with it and having a few days break, I finally figured it out.  It was the bar that latches to the coil and it was ever so slightly just sticking to the coil and not breaking away once the reels kicked.


So I removed the coil from the bracket, cleaned everything up and changed the washer on the rear of the coil so there's just a tad more play between the coil and the bar.  Working great!   Now on to the Hold and Draw feature.  If I can figure this out, it will be working 100%