Bally 1090 Award glass issue

[Phan000]

Hello,


I picked up a non-working Bally EM.  No plate, but I think it’s a 1090-  pretty huge.


I’ve repaired the machine, but the award glass is cracked.

I’m looking for ideas to replace the award glass.


I’ve looked through eBay, don’t really see anything similar.


Thanks!

[essmeier]

You can always just make one.  That's what I'd do.

[Phan000]

You can always just make one.  That's what I'd do.

I was thinking about that.  Scan, photoshop out the cracks, print on vinyl.


Does this seem right, or is there an easier way?

[essmeier]

That's basically it.  It's a good workaround when you need to replace a glass where a replacement isn't readily available.

Scan the art, clean it up in Photoshop or equivalent, and print it on glossy photo paper.  That's the easy part.

You also need to arrange for the stuff that's only seen when lit to appear by putting another layer of paper, paint, or vinyl behind the artwork.  There are various methods for doing that.  The easiest is to use black vinyl with the parts that need to pass light cut away.  This can be done with a vinyl cutter that many print shops will likely have.

A quick look at the back of the glass will make it clear where light needs to pass.

Light should be blocked from passing through all other parts of the glass from behind.

Read the full thread and you'll get the idea.  I've done a number of pinball glasses that way and I recently did a payout glass for my Bally 891.  That one was easy, as the entire glass passes light, so there was no masking necessary on the backside.

It's a bit labor intensive, but on the plus side, it's not an expensive project.

Feel free to can contact me if you have any further questions.

Charlie

[wolftalk]

if you are stitching multiple scans together, one faster way is the free microsoft ICE program.


make each scan overlap 20% with adjacent scans and throw all the images at the program.  No need to worry about image order or orientation ... it'll figure it out.  Save in a lossless format like png.


if using gimp to process the images, the gmic plugin has some useful filters in the "repair" category, and use "select by color" tools to replace all the various shades of a color with one color, then anti-alias the entire thing when done to remove jaggies.


if you don't have a scanner, highest possible resolution digital pics will work, but you have more issues with small distortions.

[DavidLee]

I would look into glue made for glass and try gluing it back together.
The time you spend trying to recreate a glass would be better spent looking for a replacement.


Have a video on YouTube of a machine I re-worked.
Required custom made glass, reel tapes and light board.
The top glass was printed from artwork I designed.
Reel glass is reverse cut black vinyl with chrome and colors added.


This process is very labor intense.

https://youtu.be/T3Eq7fITHK0

[Phan000]

Thanks for the advice.  I’m making progress.  My scanner did a terrible job with the image, so I had to take a photo.


Used “fiver” app to have someone clean up the artwork-  $5 for a guy in India to do some impressive photoshop work.




Will try the 1/8”  glass sandwich  and primer method.


Hopefully the perspective is straight, or I’ll have to spend another $5!


This machine is not super clean, and I won’t be keeping it.  Just trying to tidy up the messy bits.

[essmeier]

Scanning glass can sometimes be a pain, due to reflection issues.  Depending on the particular glass, sometimes photos work better, especially if there's not a lot of detail in the artwork.

Everyone has their own level of what's acceptable.  You just need a solution that's good enough for you.

For me, at the end of the day, all that really matters is this - will the reproduction glass draw attention to itself in some way?

If you make a glass, install it, show the machine to someone, and they don't ask any questions about the glass at all, you've been successful.

[DavidLee]

Printing in reverse on clear vinyl then backing it up with translucent white vinyl is another way to go.
Then applied to the glass.


The only problem is getting the colors right.

[Phan000]

For those that have done this process before,  does standard photo paper allow enough light through for the desired lit-up parts?


I got quotes for vinyl, but have had bad experiences color-wise with professional printers, compared to inkjet home printing.

[essmeier]

Standard photo paper works fine.  Sure, it blocks some of the light, but so does paint on silkscreened glass.

I've done a couple of slot machine glasses and a half dozen pinball glasses that way.  The result is quite good and looks very much like the real thing.

First photo is my 891 with the original payout (top) glass.  Second photo shows the machine with the replacement glass.  Top photo is poorly lit, but it's all I've got.  I replaced it due to some missing paint and a self-induced crack that showed up later.

Just photo paper between two sheets of glass. Bulbs are #47 incandescent.

I've made about ten attempts to modify this post; I keep running into memory allocation errors.

[DavidLee]

Matching colors takes time, most sign shop would charge 1 to 2 hours time to get it right.
And then it would not be as close to the original.


Do a sample test on photo paper, it’s going to cut the light and it’s paper. Could be a fire hazard down the road.


Still think glass glue could be an option.

[Phan000]

I got the glass fixed up.  Decent enough, though the print shop made the reds a bit peachy.


This machine is driving me crazy.


It has a repetitive short, usually after 5 or 6 pulls. Only on orange circuit. All lights in top unit go dark.


Resets to normal when I turn on and off.


Feel like it has to do with switches on the handle side of the reel, as I see a small amount of white spark as they travel while the reels spin.  Also,  when I misadjusted the main spring, the short was immediate and every time.


The main spring seems right now, but short is pretty persistent.

[wolftalk]

the switch is the dashpot switch.  Unfortunately, I don't have that in my 929 so can't look, but in your pics it looks like the leftmost pair of switch blades are touching the fat metal bar?


if so, you are potentially shorting the 50V onto metal frame of the machine, and if a lamp socket is also shorting to the frame, you've got a problem.


none of that would explain why the problem would immediately stop by turning the game off/on tho ... that implies a relay being powered someplace changes the behavior.


the top lights are GI - general illumination.  There's more of those on the door also.  Those aren't affected?


in any case, stick a piece of tape on the fat metal bar so the switches can't touch it and see if it makes a difference.


if the behavior is cyclical, maybe the switches on the other side of the reel mech need checking.  The variator on the clock timer link will change what happens to the switches a little as the link changes length.


also, the game isn't a 1090 (3 coin multiplier) or a 1091 (3 line pay).  The only 5 line machine I see with wide reels in the Marshall Fey book is a 1099, tho the book doesn't have everything. 


I probably have a 1099 schem, but no other info.  Do you have diodes on the reel wipers or a diode board in there?

[DavidLee]

Something is not quite right with the dash pot switch alignment.
You can add insulators temporarily to the limiter bars to see if that makes a difference.
Black tape should work.


Photo of dash pot switch with machine in relaxed position.
Notice how straight the alignment is.

[DavidLee]

Photo

[Phan000]

I don’t see any diodes.


There does not seem to be enough back pressure to keep the dash pot pulled in at the resting position.


Is there a spring missing somewhere, or any way to adjust this?

[wolftalk]

great pic from david.


you have a pic looking directly at the side of the reel mech same as his? ... further away so the entire side of the reel mech is ideal.


there's something odd about the alignment of things.  Can you loosen the two screws attaching the switch bracket to the reel mech and twist the bracket a little to make the left fat bar vertical (after you straighten it)?


also, the peg usually has a brown nylon sleeve on it.  As long as the switch blades aren't cocked and scraping the frame,  and the rightmost blade lands centered on the sleeve, that's the insulation for the peg. 
your pic looks like the left blades are touching the left fat bar...are they?  Even if they are, the bar is supposed to have a piece of fish paper on it so if a you don't get contact between the metal and a switch blade ... but that mainly protects the short blade.  If the long one is hitting the bottom edge of the bar, the fish paper may not prevent contact.

[Phan000]

I think it’s set.  I’ve run about 40$ through the machine with no hiccups.


I realigned the  teeth of the bottom left cogs, and noticed there was a lot of play in the metal frame that the dash pot slides on.  I put a spacer to keep the frame from shorting on the switches, and it seems to have done the trick.









Thanks David and wolf for the help! This machine has been a bit of a pain, and my wife said the Christmas tree needs to occupy that space this coming weekend.

[wolftalk]

ok,my bad.  Now another pic exactly like david's looking at the switch :-(


the cog alignment is right, but if you remeshed the teeth differently the shaft with the black spring will need adjustment.  The manuals have TMI with all sorts of dimensions and typos, but the short version is:


1] adjust nut E so the peg on A slides easily into the fork on the handle


2] adjust nut H for the 1/16" free play.  That gives the handle some free movement at the start of the pull.