809-n jackpot bell runaway

[wolftalk]

the 5 bars and 7's don't pay 50 any more, right? 

the pay just stops when the outboard wiper hits the hole in the F trace?  If yes, fill in the hole with solder ... it'll last a while until you get the replacement board.

can't tell in the vid if the override solenoid is releasing and kicking the coins off, or the coins are just flipping out due to the knife or maybe the roller height needs tweaking.

I usually remove the hopper and stick a drill on the motor armature ... attach chuck directly to armature and spin the thing, then you can see what the coins are doing.  You'll need to hold the override solenoid in so the coils aren't deflected off the pinwheel.

[Phan000]

Strangely,  the 777 and 5 bar wins do nothing if that grey yellow wire is removed from
the  50 & joined to the other F wire. 

When jumped together, the machine pays around 50 for both wins.

When my new board arrives,  I’ll be able to see the wiring behind the payoff board better.

[wolftalk]

Strangely,  the 777 and 5 bar wins do nothing if that grey yellow wire is removed from
the  50 & joined to the other F wire. 

not too strange :-)

grey/yellow wire is 93 ... it powers the payout relay.

for a 100 or 200 pay, you need the outboard wipers to connect the 100 or 200 trace to wire 93 on the F trace ... and you have a hole in the F trace where the outboard wiper finger is sitting so that connection doesn't happen.

try jumpering from the F trace onto the wire going between the outboard wiper fingers (bypass the hole in the trace).  If you use flexible wire, it shouldn't break off too quickly since the outboard carriage doesn't move a lot.

the reason attaching 93 to the 50 trace does something is one of the lower outboard wiper fingers is sitting on the 50 trace, so until it steps off that, you have a path from the 100 and 200 traces onto wire 93 via that 50 trace.

[Phan000]

My pay board arrived.

Looks like there are no wires connected to the bottom 100 spot on the back.

Do I need to adjust these before I install?

[wolftalk]

the black plastic coated wires shouldn't be there and need to be removed.

otherwise, it looks ok.  You just need to connect the game hopper wires to the F, 100, 20, C.O. and 200 spots along the bottom of the board.

[Phan000]

I installed the new board & same payout issue persisted.   Nothing happens on 555 or 777 unless I jumper the
50 to the F.

When I jump the f directly to the wire between the outboard fingers,  the machine pays both major wins correctly, except safety timer kicks in around 110coins.

When I jump the f to the 100 coin wire, it pays correctly as well.

So it would seem that the 100 & 200 coin spots are still not getting power.

I did remove the black plastic coated wire on the back as advised

I also noticed a green/yellow wire loose under the electric tape, as well as a loose yellow under the electric tape by the switches.  Not sure if either is related.

[wolftalk]

When I jump the f directly to the wire between the outboard fingers,  the machine pays both major wins correctly, except safety timer kicks in around 110coins.

that tells you the connection between the F trace and the outboard wiper fingers isn't working.

stick paper under all the outboard wipers except the one on the F trace.  Put an ohmeter probe on the wire on the F trace and the other probe on the trace at the top/right, then put the probe on the wire between the outboard fingers. 

if you get almost zero ohms in both places, remove the paper under the finger on the 100 trace and move probe to the 100 trace.

the green/yellow (43) wire isn't used on your game.  It was used for a 50 pay.  Some 809 models paid:
- 20 for mixed bars
- 50 for single bars   
- 100 for double bars
- 200 for triple bars

I was wrong about the microswitch.  Stuck open or stuck closed is no good ... the switch needs to be changing state or the safety timeout will happen.  Ya gotta either fix the microswitch or disconnect the safety motor.  Removing solid green wire 40 from the delay relay switches will disconnect the safety motor.

loose yellow ... do your winner paid and coin accepted lights work?

[Phan000]

I’ll probably replace the micro switch.

The coin lights do work.

After testing the outboard fingerers
For continuity, they did show that they are receiving power.  I adjusted the wiper ends and the machine started paying.   

So now just have to fix the micro switch, janky payout, and the coin multiplier.

Thanks for the help.  Glad that part is working!


Thinking previous owner had the same issue, and did a workaround by wiring the 50?

[wolftalk]

Thinking previous owner had the same issue, and did a workaround by wiring the 50?

I'd bet on that.  Odd he didn't just patch the holes on the traces instead since he had a soldering iron.  Pounding a copper wire flat-ish and soldering it onto the trace where the finger rides would have worked.

[DavidLee]

Since you have both parts of the micro switch.
Some engineering and creative soldering would be one solution for the switch.

[Phan000]

I tried to solder that cam back on, but it wouldn’t stick.  Maybe JB weld

Increased safety timer for now & it pays all 200.

The big jackpots do still payout in a Jacky way.

Looks like some arcing in one of the switches, but only on big wins..

When I tried the drill on the hopper,  they paid out fine.  So it seems like the override solenoid is kicking them out intermittently.

[wolftalk]

if the override solenoid is unpowering, the hopper motor will also hiccup since they are on the same circuit.

ya need to see if the payout relay is chattering (unpowering/repowering), which would imply an upstream circuit issue ... anywhere all the way back thru the reels to wire 30.

if the payout relay is on solid, then file/adjust the two payout relay switch contacts that have the white and white/blue wires attached to them.

[Phan000]

I looked at the payout relay as David had pointed out it was badly adjusted.

Cleaned, and tried to adjust l, and made it considerably worse.  The 555 & 777 barely paid at all & constant chattering.

Tried to adjust some more and it got a little better, but still chattering.  Regular 20 coin payout is very fluid

Is the top switch burned too badly maybe?  There was arcing in that area and it looks like
It has been malfunctioning for some time

[wolftalk]

please take pics from further back so the wire colors on the blades are visible.  Don't know the effect of the poor switch contacts because don't know what wires are attached. 

in general, if a switch is arcing badly and adjusting doesn't help, file the contacts.  You have nothing to lose at that point since your only other options is to replace the contacts/blades.

there's no difference between a 20 pay and a 100/200 pay wrt the payout relay switches.

if the payout relay is staying powered for a 20 pay, but not for a 100/200 pay, your problem is with the outboard wipers, the 100/200/C.O. trace or the F trace segment up by the 100 trace in the top/right corner ... or anywhere feeding those circuits like the odds disc wipers or reel wipers.

if you jumper the 100 or 200 trace to the 50 trace and you get solid pay for the first 50 coins, then the problem is likely the outboard wipers or traces.  If you still get flaky behavior during the first 50 coins, then the problem is probably not on the payout counter and I'd look at the odds wipers/rivets next.

for a 777 win, you can jumper wire 81 and 65-1 on the odds disc to bypass the wipers/rivets.

your odds disc is probably similar to the diagram below.  If you have pics of the wiper side of yours - including the wiring so the colors are identifiable, I may have other diagrams that match closer.
 

 

[DavidLee]

Good advice Wolftalk.

The contact in the photo isn’t in the best shape, would consider replacing after the machine is working properly.
As it could run fine as is.

Need a little recap of the situation. What exactly is not working with the machine?

[Phan000]

20 payout is fine
100-200 coin payout is spotty.  Pays out,  but clicks badly and payout relay looks like a lightning storm.

Tried to adjust a few times, but couldn’t really make it better.  Definitely made it worse for a minute.

I may have a spare set of switches, so may be worth swapping out the questionable ones.

I tried jumping the 50 coin to the 100, and same result.

[Phan000]

I tried the jumper on the odds unit.  No change

This video shows the arcing on the switches

https://youtu.be/otlPPIMEsGk

[DavidLee]

First thoughts after seeing the video.

To much voltage, slight grounding in the circuit  or related switch(s) out of adjustment.

Just for kicks, hook one side of a circuit tester to the hopper chassis.
Use the other to test individual contacts while manually operating hopper switch stacks.
Check switches as in relationship to there armature.
Sometimes switch blades will be riding on the wrong side of an armature.

Also inspect for loose wire strands shorting.
Check the payout relay as to be sure contacts are opening and closing properly.

[Trisail]

I don't know anything about your machine.

I do know a bit about electronics. You will need to clean/polish all the contacts for good connections. These should be virtually zero resistance. The arcing is causing carbon buildup and that increases resistance and makes for bad connections. The connections the wires are on around the unit are arcing and need to be trimmed/cleaned up to get some distance between them, again. The actual connections should be connected to something on the other side? These need to be good solid connections also. (Rivets?)

You can troubleshoot with it like it is to get it working. But some of this may hinder that effort. You will want to clean it up good to get a machine that will work for some length of time when you are done. 1st things 1st, or get it working and then clean.

With the progress in electronics you can see why the manufacturers moved away from relays and mechanical contacts, labor intensive.

With some patience and attention to detail you can bring this project back to a machine to behold. And get a great sense of accomplishment in the end. Just takes time, one thing at a time until it works. Keep at it, you are doing fine.

Enjoy. Hope this helps.

PS: 50 volts with 1 ohm to ground would pull 50 amps. A 5 ohm resistor in a circuit that shouldn't have one would limit the current and drop a little voltage, which means in multiple series circuits the end load voltage would not be correct. The higher the resistance the more the current is reduced,  which is what makes the circuit (voltage) work.

[wolftalk]

arcing happens.

what shouldn't be happening is the payout relay chattering ... unpowering/powering quickly.  Can't tell if it is.   It should power when a win is detected and stay powered until payout is complete.

if the payout relay is chattering, you are going to get arcing.

since your 20 pay has no issues, the payout relay switches are probably fine.  They may be crappy and could use replacement or filing, but if they were the issue you'd have the problem on a 20 pay as well.

when you jumpered the 100 trace to the 50 trace, did you check with a 5 bar win?  If you did that and checked using a 777, you needed to jumper the 200 to the 50 trace.

when you jumpered the F trace to the wire between the outboard wiper fingers, did the problems go away?  If yes, your issue is the outboard wiper finger connection to the F trace.

as a sanity check, jumper the 20 trace to the 100 trace and set up a 20 pay.  What happens?   The theory is the 20 pay circuit back thru the reels and various switches to wire 30 is ok since 20 pays well.  If the game pays 100 when the 20 and 100 are tied together, your problem with the 100 pay is probably not on the payout unit or payout relay.

your odds unit rivets definitely need cleaning.