Help with identifying my first slot machine please...

[MadMaxx123]

Hi Guys,


Just joined after finding you with the help of Google...
I have purchased what I think is a Bally EM slot machine to tinker with during the second lockdown here in England but it has no identification plate anywhere.. Can anyone help identify it?
It appears to be a bit of a Frankenstein's monster.. and has suffered in its life.. It appears to have had a drink knocked over it at some time in its past which managed to get into the door...
One of the counters coils is all but a dead short and the reels or reel glass are from a different machine..
I think the unit is an early one as it has (missing but I have 3D printed) coin tubes in the door rather than a coin hopper in the main body..
I have gone through it, got the reels going, cleaned all contacts, created the missing coin tubes and chute..
And with the door open it all works perfectly....BUT when i get the door almost completely closed I get a buzzing from the coin lockout solenoid and if a pay-out is due the pay-out motor does not run until the door is opened again.. I am suspecting the loom in the door but i have checked it all and have tried moving it around then testing (assuming it's a fractured wire) and with the door open it never goes wrong..
Any help would be most appreciated..


Thanks


Garry

[wolftalk]

the coin lockout coils can buzz after the coil and/or armature plate get worn.  They wear because the coil is powered whenever the game is ready to accept a coin, which is almost all the time.  It's pretty common for the coil to be disconnected and the tab on the armature plate rigged so it won't poke into the coin mech (or armature plate removed).

what does it say on the wiper board attached to your coin door?    If that unit is reset, your wipers are on the shaft backwards.


do you have code numbers stamped into the slotted metal index discs on the reels?



looks similar to this:
Bally gold award fruit machine help • FORUM (pennymachines.co.uk)


bally model 759 was called "Gold Award", but I have no info on it that matches what I can see of your reel tapes, and no schematics.  The 801 Penny Star and 766 Jolly Taverner didn't have hoppers, but the 766 was a large console machine.  The 801 looks more like yours tho.  There's a bunch of other models I have no info on besides a name ... e.g. 776 New Super Gold Award, many Jolly Tavenerer variations, etc.


I just got a schematic for the 801 from the UK.  I'll get it scanned and posted to http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ in the next couple of days.  Don't know if it will help.

[MadMaxx123]

Thanks for the info..


Pictures were taken before I started work on it..
I turned the wipers around early on and have now removed the extension strip of copper someone has soldered on to extend the top coin payout.


There are codes on the index plates.. I'll grab the details from them and the wiper board in the morning.. the index wheels  were screwed onto the reels in the wrong orientation and the reels were in the wrong order when I got it..they are now in the right orientation I think.. All but one of the payouts are correct, however there are no watermelons on the reels so it pays out in one position where nothing lines up..
I assume from this that the index discs match the glass but the reel strips don't.. So.. is it the glass and discs wrong or the reels?.. hopefully I/we can work it out..


I'll have a look at the suggested models and see if I find a match..


Cheers

[wolftalk]

if desperate, you can pull the top of a reel strip out of the tin - loosen crimp if you have to.  The bally part number will be on the end of the tape underneath. 


unless that's easy, better to grab the codes off the index discs and I'll see if I have them and can match them to reel strips that used them.  It would help to know how many symbols are on a strip tho.

[DavidLee]

Possible short between the door and the internal parts of the machine.
Look for burn marks on any protruding metal parts.

As you mentioned, could be in the wire bundle near the door hinges.
Inspected the back and under side of the wiring at the door jamb.
Wires on occasionally wear through. This can be hard to detect.
Also two wires in the bundle could be making contact.

Easiest way to start is by insulting the jamb with tape.
Also in the lower right there might be push button switches.
Check them out if there in the machine.

Did you notice if this happened before making the new coin chute?
Possibly the new part is touching some wire.

[MadMaxx123]

So more info on the reels, wiper board and reel mech...


Index discs are stamped PB 1, PB2 & PB3
Reel Strips PB1, PB2 & PB3A
Reel Assembly 782
Wiper Board shows 645..


I am going to start trying to jumper out wires in the door loom having insulated them from the boor, etc. and see if I can find a bad one.. Visually they all look fine..


Thanks for the help so far guys... Your historic knowledge of these machines is invaluable to me..

[rdaniel]

Pardon my ignorance, but if there is no hopper, how does a winner get paid?

[MadMaxx123]

It should have tubes in the door for coins and jackpot tokens.
The coin tube fills with the incoming coins and when full they spill into a chute mounted to the door that drops them either into a static bin inside the machine or through a hole in the base of the machine and into a coin bin inside the stand..
It limits the payout values so I guess thats why they changed to the coin hopper system..
My tubes and chute are missing so I have designed and 3D printed replacements for now.

[rdaniel]

Got it.  Like the old mechanical slots. This was truly a hybrid.

[wolftalk]

reel 1 & 2 tapes match model 782 - Penny Belle ... reel 3A is an alternate tape for a different percentage payout, but my docs don't match your tape. (edit ... oops)  See image below.


I'll dig up the index disc spec and post that later.

[MadMaxx123]

Wow, this really is a mash of bits.. Thanks for all the help..[/color] I still cannot find the issue with the loom.. It’s driving me crazy, I think there must be multiple wires.. The strange part is, when I close the door to the point where the issue occurs no amount of loom manipulation makes any difference. With a fractured wire or some sort of short I would expect to be able to get the solenoid to trip on and off momentarily as the wires moved...So I've decided to construct a new loom for the door from scratch.. At least then I can then eliminate it as an issue..[/size] I cannot find a thing on Penny Bell with Google.. It's clearly an early EM machine and originally used old UK pennies before being modified for the new 2 pence piece after decimalisation. I have fixed the input counter this morning.. the end of the advance leaver inside had broken off so I fabricated a new one..
I just need a coil for the output counter as the existing is almost a dead short. It still works but blows the fuse every time it activates, I think it is the same as ones used in early Bally pinball machines..
[/size][/color] Now to order some wire for that new loom..[/size]

[wolftalk]

game looks like it has less armor plating inside the cabinet than most machines ... are the hinges electrically isolated?  May be worth using a jumper wire to attach the door metal frame to metal bits in the cabinet that touch when the door closes (handle mech area and reel mech).


it's possible a unit in the cabinet is carrying voltage or tied to wire 30 and so is the door ... when you connect them together you get circuit paths that shouldn't exist.


you can also use a voltmeter with one probe on solid yellow wire 30 on a lamp socket and poke the door/reel mech/etc with the other probe and see if you get a voltage, and also stick a probe on the solid orange wire 70 on a meter and poke the metal bits.  However, you may get some "phantom voltage" readings ... you're mainly are looking for same voltage values you have on a lit lamp (~6.3V) or 50V+


the tab meters are standard 50V meters, used on lots of bally games over the years.  You can take the shell off and see if the coil wire inside has any issues and make sure the wire lugs aren't shorted to the case, which is then attached to the door/reel mech....


I should be done with the 801 "Penny Star" schematic in a few hours and it'll get posted to http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ , however, there's nothing on it that could cause your door behavior.

[wolftalk]

801 paperwork is available on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/801/ . It won't be exactly right for your machine, but it'll be similar.


there's also the bally 700 manual for the model 784 machines that look like yours.  The manuals are in http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/


after drinking a bit more, I see your reel 3 PB-3A tape does match the docs.  Below is the index disc doc ... the index disk that goes with tape PB-3A is p-484-343, and it should also be stamped PB-3A or P-484-343.

[DavidLee]

Don’t think I would replace the wiring at this time.
Keep searching for the short.
Check all wiring wrapped in black tape.
Also light socket solder tabs can and will rotate causing a short.


Try insulating the door from the case using a plastic bag.
Insulating the reel section above and below.
Maybe this low tech technique will narrow down the search.
If this is successful try one half at a time.

[wolftalk]

Try insulating the door from the case using a plastic bag.
Insulating the reel section above and below.
Maybe this low tech technique will narrow down the search.
If this is successful try one half at a time.

great idea!

[MadMaxx123]

Thanks for all the ideas and info so far guys, it is helping a lot..


Thanks to the 801 docs and the PD index disk info I have managed to work out what the reel strip for PB3 should look like which is great... I can now get a repro made so they all match...
I am also getting to grips with the wiring although the fault still alludes me...
The case of my machine is all wood so the door is earthed directly to the mains earth, as is the metalwork in the case..The door touches nothing when it closes so no way anything can short out.. So the issue has to be in the door loom somewhere..
It is such an odd fault... I would almost suggest it was a component moving and shorting as it only happens when the door is 3/4 closed.. but I have had everything off, checked and reassembled... so logic says move to the loom.. but with the door open no matter how I pull and twist the loom it will not play up....


Crazy....

[MadMaxx123]

So I think I have discovered the problem....
Not the loom at all, although there are a couple of wires that need replacing and are wrapped in kapton tape right now..
It's related to the door... but it's not the door itself....
The case of the machine is just wood, it has no steel reinforcing.. as a consequence of that the case distorts as the door is opened..
The connector for the reel module is tired and connections are being lost as the door closes and the case moves...
I suspect a replacement connector or a rework of the existing will solve everything....
Can the contacts in the female connector be tweaked? I ask before I attempt it and make things worse...


Thanks

[MadMaxx123]

Got it!!


So after cleaning and tweaking the connector it was a lot better but not perfect...
Then I noticed the reel module was not going all the way home..  the front location pin on the rail was only half way into the slot...
I adjusted the left rail so that the back-plate that holds the female connector was evenly distanced from the rear of the care, slid the reels back in and everything sat perfectly snug..
Hit the power and away we went...


Now I just need to 3d print a modified coin tube assembly, chute and hopper... Build a base for it, the list goes on... But most importantly it works!!!


Thanks for all the help guys... I really could not have got this far without your help....