help me get started…total noob

[rokgpsman]

I just found dipswitch #8 on schematic, looks like it was a revision. They used it over in the reset circuitry to implement an added feature. My guess is it allows you to test the mpu without having the problem of the cpu getting reset. Using dipswitch #8 for this was probably only on newer mpu boards, the drawing in the schematic looks hand drawn differently than the rest of the schematic. Notice that in the board drawing there is a jumper labeled "S1". The schematic shows that S1 is in the reset circuitry.

Here's what I think is going on. On older boards the jumper S1 was installed on the board and dipswitch #8 was not used, not connected to anything. If you wanted to you could remove jumper S1 and run the mpu in troubleshooting mode (not the same as built-in test mode). But normally the S1 jumper was there for normal operation. Later they decided to use dipswitch #8 to make it easier to implement this troubleshooting mode so you didn't have to remove S1 and then reinstall it. So they connected dipswitch #8 to do the same thing as the jumper S1. Notice that dipswitch #8 is normally left ON, so the connection is made just like jumper S1 would. Check your mpu, see if jumper S1 is removed. If so, I'll bet your dipswitch #8 is connected in it's place and allows easier selection of troubleshooting mode. Or if jumper S1 is on your mpu then dipswtch #8 is not connected to anything.

The chip U30 that S1 or dipswitch #8 connects is a watchdog timer, it is set to reset the cpu after a certain number of milliseconds if the cpu goes bonkers and doesn't reset the U30 timer. Some of the engineers I used to work with called it "kicking the dog", we'd even see that written in the software comments. (nerds have an odd sense of humor). That's what that control signal RWD is for, it is issued by the cpu thru chip U19 on a regular basis to keep U30 from timing out and resetting the cpu. By doing that at a regular interval it proves the cpu is running its program correctly and no reset is needed.

Anyway, I think the older mpu boards will have S1 installed and won't have dipswitch #8 being used. And on the newer or revised mpu boards the jumper S1 will be missing and dipswitch #8 does the job of S1. Since all the older mpu boards would have S1 on the board and it wasn't publicized what it was for then most people probably didn't know about removing the jumper to go into troubleshooting mode. Another thing, the way it is connected in the schematic below I don't see how the mpu could read the dipswitch #8 during test 3, since it isn't connected to the databus like dipswitches 1-6 are. So my comment about error code 3  580 may not be accurate.

[Amechanic]

I think your heading in the wrong dirrection by messing with your dip switches. Does your machine have a sticker on the  .back wall for the dip switch settings?

Lets get back to why your handles not locking out? Is the latches coil always energized? There should be a small return spring if I remember correct.. You could have a bad Triac on the IO that controls your handle solenoid? The manual should show what number Triac that is??

[rokgpsman]

I think your heading in the wrong dirrection by messing with your dip switches. Does your machine have a sticker on the  .back wall for the dip switch settings?

Lets get back to why your handles not locking out? Is the latches coil always energized? There should be a small return spring if I remember correct.. You could have a bad Triac on the IO that controls your handle solenoid? The manual should show what number Triac that is??

Looks like the handle solenoid triac is Q16.

[Dbeeson]

Ok, last post before bedtime

Dip switch chart: yes, it is on a sticker on the back wall! It took me a while to figure that out as the manual states where the dips should be at. All set and normal. All is good with continuity, I checked them all at the the back of the board.

The crank issue: I believe the issue here was (believe it or not) the ribbon cables at the top of the door. They are supposed to be tucked in nicely with some kind of retainer (missing). SO, when I close the door to engage the machine, coin drop, I hear the solenoid for the handle click in and all is well. When I crank the handle, sometimes those sloppy ribbon cables would brush up against the wheel(s) causing a tilt of some sort, and then the reels would not stop and the solenoid was then held in.

Now, while I was messing about with continuity on the mpu I noticed that there is NO IC at U30. There is a socket, but no ic. I noticed this previously but thought nothing to check if there needed to be an IC in there in the first place. Well the schematic says 14020 counter. Does anyone know if this is to be in the board? Perhaps this is where my issues are coming from. Sometimes the LCD reads jargon, segments lit that don't even make numbers.

We're almost there guys.  (I hope?)

[rokgpsman]

... Does your machine have a sticker on the  .back wall for the dip switch settings?

The back wall of his machine does have a sticker, shows info for dipswitches 1,2,7,8.

[rokgpsman]

Ok, last post before bedtime

...
Now, while I was messing about with continuity on the mpu I noticed that there is NO IC at U30. There is a socket, but no ic. I noticed this previously but thought nothing to check if there needed to be an IC in there in the first place. Well the schematic says 14020 counter. Does anyone know if this is to be in the board? Perhaps this is where my issues are coming from. Sometimes the LCD reads jargon, segments lit that don't even make numbers.

We're almost there guys.  (I hope?)

well, U30 is a safety circuit, it resets the cpu if something were to go nuts with the cpu while it is executing the game program. It may not have to be installed since it only does something if there is a cpu runaway. But since I'm just making an educated guess and it should be a readily available chip you might want to install it if you continue to have mpu problems in case I'm wrong about that. The name of it is "binary counter". It may be listed as CD4020 or other part numbers with 4020 in the name, the prefix is sometimes a mfr thing. The equivalent circuit on the E-1000 machine mpu board is called U6 and it is a 4020 ic. (see attached)

Removing it is the same as removing jumper S1 (or turning dipswitch #8 OFF), which puts the mpu into what Bally calls troubleshooting mode for troubleshooting the mpu itself. Maybe someone was troubleshooting things before you got the machine and removed U30. The tech NLG member that Amechanic referred to earlier (dhellis) could say for sure since he tests & repairs these boards.

[Dbeeson]

Ok, so you're saying I do need it in order for the game not to think it's in test mode? I'm confused since you also mentioned that it may not have to be installed.

Another thing to clarify, I HAVE seen the display with no decimals before. A few times actually, where it just read 50 000. Not lately though.

During test mode, are you able to run the machine as normal? Ie credit the game up, and crank it? Because the game WORKS now, but does strange things like I can pump credits into it (and they are registering) but the lights on the front buttons (1 cred, max cred)don't always flash to ask my selection, and doesn't seem to count the credits I put in properly. I can put 20 credits in and I may get 2 or 3 pulls. Of course, I don't know what I'm putting in right now because the credit display is all wonky, which I figure will be the last thing I tackle. But still not giving me the right amount of cranks for the amount of credits. I should also mention that I cranked it 20 or 30 times and did not get any payout at all.

[rokgpsman]

Ok, so you're saying I do need it in order for the game not to think it's in test mode? I'm confused since you also mentioned that it may not have to be installed.

Another thing to clarify, I HAVE seen the display with no decimals before. A few times actually, where it just read 50 000. Not lately though.

During test mode, are you able to run the machine as normal? Ie credit the game up, and crank it? Because the game WORKS now, but does strange things like I can pump credits into it (and they are registering) but the lights on the front buttons (1 cred, max cred)don't always flash to ask my selection, and doesn't seem to count the credits I put in properly. I can put 20 credits in and I may get 2 or 3 pulls. Of course, I don't know what I'm putting in right now because the credit display is all wonky, which I figure will be the last thing I tackle. But still not giving me the right amount of cranks for the amount of credits. I should also mention that I cranked it 20 or 30 times and did not get any payout at all.

Not having U30 installed doesn't put the machine in test mode, that is done with the test switch down by the hopper. Removing U30 or S1 or turning dipswitch 8 OFF just keeps the cpu from resetting, which you want if troubleshooting the mpu board itself, and Bally called that troubleshooting mode. From looking at the schematic it doesn't appear that U30 is required for the game to run since U30 only does something if the mpu malfunctions, then it resets the cpu. But I don't know what is going on inside the game software and I haven't worked on these mpu's so I could be wrong. So unless someone tells us for sure one way or the other I'd install the chip since it is low cost and fairly easy to get. But from looking at the drawings I don't see that it has to be there.

My hunch is that Bally added the troubleshooting mode with jumper S1 and dipswitch #8 for when they needed to troubleshoot the mpu board itself, like at the factory or someone doing maintenance in the repair shop. Notice that on your mpu board in the lower left corner there is a place for a TEST switch connection. (see attached) Your board probably has a couple of solder pads where that TEST switch connection would go. When testing the mpu itself the tech could add the TEST switch connection, then disable U30 so the cpu wouldn't timeout and reset while he was working on it. You don't want it resetting when you are working on it. Anyway that's my theory. So I'm not convinced that U30 is needed for the game to work, but dhellis or someone else could tell us for sure.

[rokgpsman]

...Another thing to clarify, I HAVE seen the display with no decimals before. A few times actually, where it just read 50 000. Not lately though.

That is good, is a normal display as long as all the decimal points are not lit, the 2 center ones lit are ok.

...During test mode, are you able to run the machine as normal? Ie credit the game up, and crank it? Because the game WORKS now, but does strange things like I can pump credits into it (and they are registering) but the lights on the front buttons (1 cred, max cred)don't always flash to ask my selection, and doesn't seem to count the credits I put in properly. I can put 20 credits in and I may get 2 or 3 pulls. Of course, I don't know what I'm putting in right now because the credit display is all wonky, which I figure will be the last thing I tackle. But still not giving me the right amount of cranks for the amount of credits. I should also mention that I cranked it 20 or 30 times and did not get any payout at all.

From what I understand, if you get into test mode #8 by pressing the test switch near the hopper 8 times you can run a lot of the game functions sorta like normal. That is covered in the manual, see below. This is part of the built-in self test, not the same thing as my previous post when a tech is troubleshooting the mpu by using the test switch connection to the mpu board and disabling U30 by removing S1 or turning dipswitch #8 OFF. If you are in the built-in test mode the display should show "8" in left hand digit and all the decimal points will be lit. And it may do some quirky things since you are not in normal play mode. I haven't done this so can't describe it exactly for you, sorry. I am figuring some of this out as we go along, want to share anything I find out but run the risk of misinformation since I only have the drawings to go by, not a real E-2000.

Some of this has gotten pretty deep into the machine's electronics, and I find that really interesting, but it may not be all that helpful to getting your machine working. I suggest making sure the mpu dipswitch's are set normally, press the test switch near the hopper and do some of the built-in self tests to see what passes and what fails. If you can locate and install a replacement U30 that will eliminate any worry about it.

[rokgpsman]

...Sometimes the LCD reads jargon, segments lit that don't even make numbers.

I'd make sure the cables, ribbons that connect to that display board are not flaky and the sockets the cables plug into are good connections. A lot of time on ribbon cables the header connector is pressed on and over time it can get intermittent, especially if it is disconnected from the board by pulling on the ribbon.

[Amechanic]

Now, while I was messing about with continuity on the mpu I noticed that there is NO IC at U30. There is a socket, but no ic. I noticed this previously but thought nothing to check if there needed to be an IC in there in the first place. Well the schematic says 14020 counter. Does anyone know if this is to be in the board? Perhaps this is where my issues are coming from. Sometimes the LCD reads jargon, segments lit that don't even make numbers.
We're almost there guys.  (I hope?)

Ok just woke up and saw that you have been busy.. I pulled out one of my MPU Boards bad from dhellis, and it does have the IC you seem to be missing. I check the second one, and it too has one. I took a quick picture with my phone for yea.
As for the doors ribbon cable, they do cause problems if not secured. If a reel doesn't spin at a correct rpm, your machine will tilt!! I like to help hold then in place with a piece of tape.
With your display issue, have you checked the condition of the plug end of the ribbon cable for a bad pin? If its been rubbing on the reels long enough it could have a bad segment or broken wire inside.

[Dbeeson]

And we're back!

Yes, I should not have been up till 2am puttering about.

Anyway, good news is, the decimals are only 2, they always were after I fixed the power supply. So no it's not stuck in "test" mode (I meant diagnostic mode for mpu but kept calling it test mode) and the game operates fine.

The problem with the credit display was due to a bad connector pin in the .100 molex connector on the driver board's daughter board (as shown in the pic)

So I'm on to solving the last problem. The game seems to have never ending credits, and when it goes down to zero, it just comes back to 99, with a few segments (not a digit) lit before it. There's a pic of the current state. The next 99 credits might have the segments lit on the top and not the bottom.

[Dbeeson]

 

[Dbeeson]

It appears that it was over 999 credits. It's back down to under 999 and starting to show numbers properly. I'm going to drain it completely and see if it will take my credits.

[Dbeeson]

Ok now it's down to 0 credits. I notice that I can only put 4 tokens in at a time. At 4 coins I can spin once at 3 coins and then 1 the next spin. Is there any way to add tokens and the game can keep track of how many credits I've put in on the credit meter?

[Amechanic]

No that's normal. You can insert only one extra coin. Even my later Bally 5500 does it like that. Do any winnings go into you credit meter, or does your machine payout? I think you can set it up do either. If I remember correctly it has something to do with your cash out button, or maybe a bet button??

[Dbeeson]

Ok great! Still one problem and I believe it is battery related. I had the problem with credits being more than 999, well it seems to revert to that when I shut the game off and turn it back on. If it's anything like a Bally pinball machine, it's the battery.

You guys noticed that there's a coin battery holder on the board, would a 3v lithium battery work?

[rokgpsman]

Yes, a 3v lithium can be used. In fact I think you can mount a round coin style 3v battery holder on the board, looks like the solder pads are there. (EDIT: I forgot you already have a round battery holder on the mpu).  Or you can use a remote AA battery holder and solder the 2 wires from the battery holder to the mpu board battery connection pads.

Something to keep in mind, the original battery was a rechargeable NiMh type so there is a charging path that goes from Vcc to the battery thru R62 when the power is on. You shouldn't do that to a lithium battery, so need to remove R62 and add a blocking diode. The diode will let battery power go from the battery to the 5101 memory when machine power is off but the diode will block the charging path back into the battery when machine is powered on. This is one of the mods that dhellis recommends that Amechanic mentioned. Because the diode drops about .6 v when turned on the 5101 memory will get less that 2.5v from a 3v battery, so it might be better to use a 3.6v battery. If you use a remote battery pack and simple non-lithium AA batteries I don't think it will hurt anything to leave the charging system as it is but good practice would be to add the diode anyway. The solder pads for the added diode (CR5) are already on the board, looks like Bally allowed for this in case a non-rechargeable battery was ever used.

This may be why your credit memory is acting up, the 5101 memory may get corrupted when machine power is turned off since it isn't kept alive with a battery.

I was looking for more info on the credit display board and what other boards it connects to. Does the ribbon from the credit display run directly to the I/O board or does it go to another board and then to the I/O? If so, can you tell me the Bally p/n's of those boards so I can find them in the drawings?

here's a photo showing the mod dhellis suggested:

PS> the popular, long-lasting 3.6v lithium battery shown below is often called a "Tadiran" if you want to search for it on internet. You can get them in a variety of shapes, with or without solder leads. They are used in a lot of slot machines and arcade games.

[Amechanic]

It is possible that your machine there will need the battery. It's used for keeping any accounting information intact. Normally it's not needed, but since your machine has the credit option it might. I would have thought that is might have worked just the opposite and that you would loose and credit you had stored up?  Interesting... 

[rokgpsman]

I'm thinking that the 5101 memory is used mostly for storing accounting data but there are probably a few memory locations in the 5101 that weren't being used for that so they stuck the credit data in there too on machines that have the credit feature. Then when the mpu powers up it reads that 5101 memory and displays whatever your credits are from last time. If the battery is dead or removed then the 5101 data gets random bits stored in it when powered off and then back on. This doesn't matter about the accounting data getting clobbered to the home user but the part of the 5101 that stores the credits also gets random data. When a static RAM chip like a 5101 gets powered up it's memory will have a random collection of "1" and "0" bits, not a nice pattern of all zeroes or all ones. That could be why the credits he sees on power-up are crazy amounts.

The credit info has to be saved somewhere when the machine is turned off and there isn't anyplace else that it can be saved from what I see on the drawings. Adding the battery isn't too hard for him and will eliminate it as a possible problem, but I agree with you that there could something else going on.