Bally 889-B Reel stop issue

[wolftalk]

here's the "why" part of what david is describing.


the fork on the handle mechanism connects the handle to the reels and goes around the peg on gear A (below diagram and purple arrow in pic).   


generally you adjust the end nut (E) so the peg is more-or-less centered in the fork, then adjust nut (H) for the 1/16" free play.  A bigger free play gap delays when the trip lever (N) starts moving, so keep the free play small.  You can use the dimension on the diagram, but eyeballing is good enough ... it shouldn't be that sensitive.


if you need the main shaft to start moving sooner as you pull the handle, the best you can do is remove as much slop as possible:
- adjust nut (E) so the peg is touching the top of the fork ... but you can still install the reel mech into the cabinet easily
- minimize the free play gap at nut (H)

I'd guess your free play gap is too big so too much handle pull is consumed before the trip lever starts rotating.

[wolftalk]

wrt the wiring, I'm getting daft.  The 922-B written on your insert board didn't register in my head.


the 889 is a 3-line progressive, the 922 is a 5-line progressive.


looks like you have a mashup machine.  The insert board is from a 922 but it's in an 889 cabinet and mated to a reel mech wired for an 889, so you'll have wires for the 4th and 5th payline that aren't used.  Things like the line unit may be from an 889 or the 922 unit has been tweaked to only step up two times instead of 4 (open at top switches bent to open at step 2).


I would guess the big problem is the lamps don't line up correctly behind the top glass backlit "panels", so the simple solution was to just turn on all the lamps.


to fix that issue, you'll probably need to relocate lamp sockets, and that may take some imagination - plug existing holes to make new ones or whatever.  You'll need to remove the blue board to do that, and then it should be more clear what they did and how to make it correct for an 889.


if you aren't sure about the lamp alignment, just take out all the lamps except one and stick in the glass.  See if the lit one is centered on a panel, then move the lamp to some other sockets to see what the situation is.

[Phan000]

I was able to make the right adjustments to get the reels spinning correctly.  Thanks David and Wolf for the very explicit information and diagrams.  I’ve had this issue with other machines, and really struggled to make the right adjustments.


I may leave the lights as is for the time being.  It will not be as fun to play, but the idea of digging in to the back of that top board is pretty daunting.




Thanks again for all the help!

[DavidLee]

Great, and what was the final adjustment(s) that made the difference?


Post a photo of the light board backside when you get a chance.

[wolftalk]

below is a piece of the 922 flyer image from arcade-history.com.  Comparing the top glass layout to the picture in the first post shows the oops.  The 889 has the 777 stuff higher up on the glass.



there wasn't enough room on the 889 glass to add the panels for lines 4 & 5, so they had to move/shrink things.  The top of the glass with the progressive numbers is the same on both.

[Phan000]

I adjusted the trip lever stop bracket just enough so that the handle would not bottom out.


Then I loosened the nut end a good bit.  The nuts themselves had some damage on the outsides, so I suspect the previous owner had misadjusted before giving up on this machine.


The real trick was to leave barely any play between the two nuts as wolf mentioned.  I guess eyeballing 1/16 is tricky and I probably over-gapped by too much in my previous dealings with this part.


Do you think the casino would have merged these two machines, or more likely happened after it was retired?




I’ll try to post a photo of the back later.


Thanks again wolf and David for all the help.  Machine is looking sharp and playing well.

[rdaniel]

I have a similar situation with my 831 fruit machine. It seems that after sitting overnight the reels will lock up after the first two or three pulls on the handle. Then the reels spin normally and the machine plays normally. Could the "L" bracket need a minor adjustment?

[wolftalk]

I have a similar situation with my 831 fruit machine. It seems that after sitting overnight the reels will lock up after the first two or three pulls on the handle. Then the reels spin normally and the machine plays normally. Could the "L" bracket need a minor adjustment?

does "lock up" mean they won't spin, they spin but drift to a stop and don't latch, or they latch without spinning (much)?


what's mechanically going on is as you pull the handle, the man shaft attached to the trip lever (N) is rotating clockwise.  That retracts the reel wipers out of the slots in the index discs, when those arms have pulled out far enough, pawls grab them and holds them back.


after the reels kick and spin, the timer links under the reels slowly move toward the back and finally shift the pawls.  That releases the reeel wiper arm and it snaps forward into a slot on the index disc and stops the reel spin.


when the stop bracket (O) is too far back, the kick happens before the pawls reliably grab the reel wiper arms and the arms immediately index the reels instead of waiting for the timer links to do it.


the other piece of the puzzle is the clock on the left side of the reel mech.  That is controlling the speed the timer links are moving forward ... and if you grab the clock fan, you stop the timer links completely and you can then move the reels wherever you want.  If you are having mechanical issues when it's cold, see if the fan and/or the linkages on the left side of the reel mech are getting stalled by grease that is too thick at low temps.


you may need to clean off the old grease and use something less temperature sensitive.  I like tri-flow super lube with teflon in the squeeze bottle, but there's lots of similar products.

[wolftalk]

Do you think the casino would have merged these two machines, or more likely happened after it was retired?

certainly the guys who refurbed the machines did it.  The guy I got a lot of paperwork from in Reno area would build a machine to what a customer wanted.  'course, he had a press to make the slotted metal index discs if necessary and lots of reel tapes and glass.


there's also the "make a good machine" out of a pile of parts games.


whether the casinos did it ... i think there's some folks here that worked in the casino slot operations area that could say. 


I'd guess the bigger casinos wouldn't as there's risk the person doing the conversion screws up and it would be legally murky to operate a game that wasn't certified by the local gaming regulators.

[DavidLee]

Most likely it’s the lubricant that keeps the reels from spinning.
But since it’s all 3 reels the machine could be tripping before the index arm/roller gets out of the way.
Try warming up the machine for 30 minutes then see what happens.

[DavidLee]

Only thing that needs attention are the lights.

[Phan000]

So because the machine is a mashup, does this mean the progressive feature won’t pay?


The numbers do advance.


I’m sort of ok with 7’s lit all the time, but really want progressive part to pay when it finally hits.

[DavidLee]

The progressive is paid off by attendant.
Would like to see the line lights working.

[wolftalk]

a variable progressive probably doesn't pay coins on any EM slot - too complicated and/or not even possible.

if you get the 777 on the progressive line, the bell just stays ringing and the coin lockout coil is unpowered so the game won't accept a coin.  Looks like they then have to twist a key switch repeatedly to step the progressive reels up one step for each twist to reset the progressive amount.  I'd bet DavidLee can say for sure.

if you get a 777 win that isn't the progressive, the typical 889 and 922 would pay those in coin because the payout amount was less than 200 coins (typical max a mechanically stepped payout counter could handle). 

what your machine does you'll have to find out since the top line 777 pays 500.   The easy way out is lock up for >200 777 wins and the casino hand pays them.   The "bally way" would be to pay 200 coins and lock up, then the casino hand pays the rest.  Doing it the bally way is only slightly harder and there's multiple ways to accomplish it (extra switches in a couple spots, have a top line 777 power the bottom line 777 relay, etc.)

[Phan000]

David, 


I’d really like to get those lights working correctly.  Not really sure how to start.


They are currently always on as seen in the photos.  The red progressive arrow switches back and forth from to bottom progressive after coins are deposited.


The top coin lights dim briefly when coins are deposited, but all stay on.  I’d hate to make the lights not work accidentally.

[wolftalk]

first thing I'd do is see how much trouble you're in.

1] take the backglass and either make some measurements, or find some paper transparent enough you can see thru.   You need to determine where the lamps need to be.  See purple dots on first image below, and use the number reel hole centers as a reference to measure/draw the teal lines.  With the teal lines and distance between purple dots, you have the lamp layout.

2] either use the measurements or remove the lamps and use your paper as a template, mark on your insert board where the lamp centers need to be.  It'll be something like the second image below, but there's camera angle distortion.  Some existing holes may be close enough.

3] measure the diameter of a lamp hole in the existing panel.  If it's the size you can buy a premade dowel or a plug cutter in, then you can glue in plugs into the existing holes.  If not, it may be easier to just get a piece of plywood and make a new insert board.  May be easier to make a new board anyway, or maybe goop in a drillable epoxy wood filler with the closest undersized plug you can find.

if you plugged holes, you drill new ones where they need to be, install the lamp sockets and fix the wiring so it works like it should.

note the chewed up outlines around your lamps.  There's supposed to be the wooden fins to compartmentalize each lamp so the light doesn't bleed to adjacent panels on the glass.  You'd want to make/install those.  Bally probably used a block of wood with the hole shapes routed out due to the tight spacing.  The 889 has a little more room between lamps, so you may be able to use the fins.

it's a fair bit of work.  I'd do it, but I've been known to move walls because they are 2 inches off where they should be :-)

[DavidLee]

Apparently all the lights have been linked together.
There is quite a bit going on in the top unit.
It’s really hard to work on/trouble shoot the unit while in the machine!
Regarding the line lights, a schematic would be helpful.
If the line lights are working on the reel glass, that also would will be helpful.
As they are linked to the the top line lights and possibly have the same color code.
Best to determine the architectural relationship in regards to the line unit and which
wires control the bottom line lights to start.
Then check for any correspondence with the top line lights.


Regarding the jackpot lights.
It should be fairly easy to trace a coded wire from the jackpot coil contacts to the indicator light.
Then to the jackpot lights behind the multi colored asterisk.


I have a simple 3 line machine in the shop.

It’s a little easier to trace the 3 line wires without the progressive unit.


If I get a chance I will do a little investigating regarding the line lights.
As I’m finishing up on an old Bally pinball machine.

[DavidLee]

Check for the three coded wires on the light board.
If they’re still connected, that’s a good start.

[wolftalk]

just to make sure we're all on the same page ... my understanding is the game lighting CANNOT be fixed to work correctly because the lamps are in the wrong place for an 889.


the only options are:
- leave it like it is
- move some/all the lamps, then deal with hooking the lamps that line up in the right places behind the glass correctly

[DavidLee]

If the light board was never wired for 3 lines, it would be difficult to modified.


If there was more accessibility it probably could be achieved.