Bally 809 5 coin multi "winner paid" light never goes off

[Richardkl]

I am trying to fix a slot machine for a friend that moved it with coins in it and when he plugged it back in , fuses blew,  coils melted and many contacts had to be cleaned. I have gotten it to the point that it takes coins, pays out one time, then I have to manually reset the payout hopper wheel back to starting position. The manual that I have found on line "Bally em" , does not have diagrams of the "winners paid " or the  "insert coin" or the "coin accepted" circuits I am also having a problem with the Insert coin light goes out after I put a coin in, the "coin accepted "light goes on but the "insert coin" light goes out. After 5 coins the coin accept coil de-energised and no additional coins are accepted and the inset coin light STAYS out.

any help and circuit diagrams would be greatly appreciated.

[The Fatman]

Just took a peek to refresh my brain, at my 809 schematics. The lamps for those issues, are prety much controlled in the head of the machine. As you drop coins, it advances the wipers and closes and open switches. Check the switches and clean with a good contact cleaner and a nylon brush or credit card. Chances are this is where the problem is. There are connections thru a beau plug and molex connectors on the door. Since you say the lamp works and then doesnt, lets me feel that you have a switch that when the stepper unit advances the unit, it breaks contact. Let me know if this helped you. As far as the Winner Paid lamp, I would look at the payout relay switches at the back of the hopper.
Dave F

[Richardkl]

Thanks for your response, all the lights works ( illuminate ) BUT the insert coin lamp goes out when the "coin accepted  lamp" lights as the coin relay gets activated, according to page 12 of the manual that  I have it describes in a table that the ""title ""is ""coin relay switch 1 s.p.d.t "", location on machine , coin relay, function, transfers  circuit from ""insert coin lite"" to "" coin accepted lite" . I think that this means that another circuit must activate to keep the insert coin lite ON until five coins are inserted OR the handle is pulled. 

I Wiggled the BEAU connector on the 5 cojn multi unit and that fixed the insert coin lamp, going off after first coin, as the circuit that controls the "insert coin" lamp after the first coin is inserted MUST be in the multi unit. I wish I had a diagram of the lamp circuits. So I can  determine the exact contact that was failing.

So I last problem, that  is that the winner paid circuit is not resetting when the handle is being pulled , any idea or diagrams of that circuit would be greatly appreciated.

I have just took a dremel with a wire brush and cleaned all the BEAU male pins. ANY idea how to clean the females?

[Richardkl]

found the last problem, it was a switch that controls the payout reset coil that was mounted on the " hopper payout unit" the switch was working it , it was the plastic arm was stuck to the index number item 73 , part number r-522 "rubber cushion" it has basically melted and is very sticky. I stuck a piece of paper to the rubber and now the plastic arm  releases and operates the  switch to close and reset the winners Paid circuit.


Any idea where I can buy a a R-522 rubber cushion?

[Amechanic]

That items no longer available any where.. Most people just use a pencil eraser. I have found a rubber bumper that I had to trim a little off the one end, but works great and looks original, plus it should never wear out..

Gary

[OldReno]

You should find some basic schematics at the front area of your bally manual. There are a couple of pages that should be of help, and please realize that most of the bally circuits are generic.
For your insert coin light, the engineers were quite clever.  Normally it runs through the coin relay stack on the left of the reel mech.  However, they wanted it to turn off after max coins were put in, so they designed in another stack (circuit in parallel) in the odds unit disk in the top unit.  It is operated by a little tab on the white toothed gear, and you will see a stack of switches that are controlled by that.  ONE of those sets is your insert coin light, and it should be normally closed at 1st odds, and only should open at Max coin in.  So, after 1st coin in, the coin relay switch opens and kills the insert coin light.  But, since you have a multiple coin machine, and you want it to stay on until after you put max coins in, then the odds disk switch stays closed until max. (and until the odds disc resets at start of next game)
Now, the tricky part.
The ONLY time you really need the coin relay switch, is when you have played max coins on the prior game.  That is the only time it is really used, because all  other times (except max) the odds unit switch will control the light.
So, if your light goes out after 1st coin in, then your top unit odds disc switch is either open or a wire broken off, or it is not conducting through the switch blade.
Hope that makes some sense.

[RiseLikeRa]

Reno:


That was a great explanation of a VERY common problem.  I will resource it many times in the future I am sure.  Thank you so much.


Ra

[OldReno]

Dear RiseLikeRa,
Thanks, glad it was helpful.
Please note that they do the same thing for the coin lockout coil, which is what allows the machine to accept coins, and makes it stop doing so after max played.
It also I believe is in parallel, and uses the odds disc assy.
We really should all talk about those schematics in the manual some day...
YOurs,
reno

[OldReno]

I would answer in better detail, but two days ago my laptop got infected, when I was attempting to download a flash plugin update or some shit, and now I have ads popping up everywhere, and it is a really ugly situation.  I will get back with more if and when I can figure out how to get this ad stuff from basically ruining my computer.  If I ever catch those MF'ers I WILL do some ultraviolence on them I guarantee you.  AND I will go out of my way to do it, too...
Why do people do mean shit like that???

[The Fatman]

How ironic .. I am just dealing with the same type issue, just after replacing the hopper female beau plug on the back side of the hopper area  inside the cabinet. I had the "winner paid" lamp staying lit. I saw that my hopper would let the cons advance on the wheel to lift the roller arm and keep a coin stuck under it. When I cleared the coin, the next play would clear the lamp. I looked at the wires and they are in the zero stop switch and the end of stroke switch tied to the reset coil behind the spiral disk unit. This linkage should with reset, stay locked in the reset position. If I press on the arm from the front of the disk, it will reset the disk and open the zero switch but not lock in place holding the switch open. So what it doesnt do is to lock the reset linkage in full reset position. This position, will open the end of stroke switch, which will also cut the power to the "Winner Paid" lamp. My hopper motor was staying energized just a little bit longer than needed and the coin knock off relay was slow in releasing to clear the extra coins on the hopper wheel, I finally traced the lines to the payout relay. I noticed that it was releasing connection at the last moment of the coil release. I adjunsted the switch to open, at the beginning of the release of the coil. This stopped the power to the coin knock off coil to let go and clear the extra coins from the hopper disk so they dont get stuck under the roller, causing the reset to not lock in.... OldReno ... please chime in on this ... I need the confirmation since I always take the long way to figure things out ... am I getting better? ... Thanks ... it did fix my problem with the lamp staying on. 
Dave F

[OldReno]

When a mechanic resets a payboard he pushes that pawl.  It does not latch out the WP light.  The machines resets the payboard by pulsin g the payout counter solenoid, which does lock the pawl.
Same thing but light is on or off as a result.
You sound like you fixed it.  Good one, that takes creativity and you got it.
Excellent.

[The Fatman]

Thanks for the conformation .... Didnt take too long but realizing the coin hanging up was the main issue was the key to going the way I went. Take care and have a great holiday if we dont chat again before they arrive.
Dave F

[RiseLikeRa]

Dave you are quickly becoming our East Coast Donner! We all know that Reno is the all knowing one on this forum but as I learn my simple fixes it is great to know that there are others like you for me to look up to as well.


Have a wonderful holiday to all.


Ra

[The Fatman]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I love doing this and probably, if I dont let get out of hand, continue for a good long time.
Enjoy the Holidays my friend

Dave F

[OldReno]

Y'know, OpBell trumps me, but I sure got a lotta time on the EM's.
The design was brilliant, the circuitry amazing. 
It's so simple, the things are brilliant, no other words work.
I wish someone with the means would come videotape how to work on these things, because I can explain the serious intricacies of the Bally.  I have hours and hours of stuff.
I am a one man encyclopedia on how to fix and modify them, and I hope someone takes advantage of this info.
Anyway kids, until then, I am still here.
Hey OpBell, can we go over circuits sometime?
The schematics in the Bally manual are certainly enough for us all to learn the sequences of the machine.  It's not enough to just find something binding, or lube a part, but how and why are most interesting things for us to learn. 
You guys are a kick in the head. Thanks.

[RiseLikeRa]

Reno:


there is a video out there that you can buy on ebay.  I have a copy and it is not bad but I would like to see more as well.  Perhaps that video is something we as forum members can work on.  Pick some typical repairs, have you work through them, and have a college film student record it.  I would kick in a substantial sum of money to make  this happen.  Huumm?  Anyone else interested?


Ra

[Herbie21]

Although I am replying on an old topic, I just want to add my problem to the similar issues.


I understand the schematics, how the 'insert coin' and 'odds set up coil' are working. My problem is that after max coins inserted the 'isert coin; is still lit end the odds set up coil is still engined when a coin is accepted.


I check all circuits and my conclusion is there must be a short? I did the OldReno test and it was confirmed.


What do you think is this the right conclusion?


Best regards, Herbie

[OldReno]

If your coin relay switch which controls insert coin/coin accept light is maladjusted that will keep IC LIGHT ON. MAKE SURE IT IS OPEN WHEN COIN RELAY ASSEMBLY TRIPS. Oops sorry about CAPS.
Why your coil stays on, don’t know. Need more info

[Samman]

My 1090 machine is working fine, BUT, my winner paid light never comes on. It used to.  I checked the bulb and its fine. All pays are perfect,so I can't imagine its any of the switches. Maybe a loose wire?