Author Topic: first Reel not spinning properly on a three reel EM (Read 26763 times)

rjpohl · « **Reply #60 on:** December 21, 2014, 05:07:38 PM »

I went back and looked at hopper, there are 3 sets of contacts that are activated by coin out roller arm:
top set is NO
2nd set is NO
3rd set is NC (when this set opens machine tilts)

Any suggestions?

thanks
Bob

rjpohl · « **Reply #61 on:** December 21, 2014, 05:32:26 PM »

Contacts on top right are open until coil is egaged one time (then they close)
contacts on left farthest from wheel is NO, closest to wheel NC, each time coin is engaged the close/open

rjpohl · « **Reply #62 on:** December 21, 2014, 05:37:06 PM »

picture in neutral position:
horizontal contacts are closed until coil is engaged one time, then the open
vertical contacts are closed until coil is engaged 17 times

any other info/pics needed?

thanks
Bob

OldReno · « **Reply #63 on:** December 22, 2014, 07:52:43 PM »

With a coin fully under the roller (top dead center) do the switches all appear to be closing/opening correctly? Do any of the switches touch to case when you manually push the roller all the way down? Does a blade touch to a different blade which it is not supposed to?
Have you checked for shorts?
Be aware that NO SWITCH should ever be in contact with the metal of the machine. They are all supposed to be insulated from case.
If you find one that does touch, put some tape or heat shrink to isolate it.
You can use your VOM on ohms and clip one lead to case, and touch the other lead to all switches to see if they contact. They should not.
Also, you might want to put a piece of tape between the two switches that make it tilt, and try the payouts again.

rjpohl · « **Reply #64 on:** December 23, 2014, 04:54:27 AM »

Thanks, I'll check for shorts etc soon, holidays are going toput a halt to working on it as much
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All of you guys
Bob

rjpohl · « **Reply #65 on:** December 23, 2014, 10:09:58 AM »

I could not find any shorts in these switched (operated by coin out roller arm)

I did look again to make sure the and the top 2 sets are NO and close when quarters activate switch
The 3rd set (bottome set) are NC and open when lever arm is raised (as soon as this set opens machine tilts) Switch has Yellow to one lead and has Brown/orange & Brown/Gray to the other terminal.

Yellow is neutral so I'm guessing the 3rd set is dropping neutral to something, wouldn't think that would cause tilt.

Activating coin out roller arm does not advance the payout unit wheel.

again thanks
Bob

OldReno · « **Reply #66 on:** December 23, 2014, 01:30:49 PM »

Since the machine tilts, there is probably a tilt relay, likely in the top unit, and it COULD be that if you lose power to the tilt relay coil for X amount of time then it will de-energize and drop out, thus giving a tilt. I said, could be... For example, if a coin is stuck under the coin out roller you might want it to tilt, and a NC set of switches could accomplish that along with a cap and resister perhaps for timing. You might want to see if you can locate that coil, and also see if the wire colors to it match the wire colors that are NC on your coin out roller switches...
Never did work much with tilt relays, but they can in theory either be on to keep from tilting, or off to keep from tilting. Depends on how you want the circuit I would guess. Also you might want to look in top unit for some weight switches of 'slam' switches that also will control a tilt. Similar to what they had in pinballs I believe.
Keep at it.

rjpohl · « **Reply #67 on:** December 23, 2014, 03:16:23 PM »

Mayber the coil in top box (see pic) tilt relay, there is a set of Orange (50v) wires to one terminal but no wires to the other terminal (center of picture, I've circled the wireless terminal). I can't find any loose wires laying around in that area. There are 2 Yellow wires (neutral) with an exposed solder joint, if I connect these the coil energizes.

What is I hold that NC set of contacts together and see if the payouts takes place?

Don't know if this sheds any light on this or not.

OldReno · « **Reply #68 on:** December 23, 2014, 04:53:52 PM »

Heck yes, experiment, the very best way to learn shit.
If your hopper payboard step up coil does not step at all (either every coin out for 1 played, or every 2 coins out for 2 played, etc.), then your hopper will run away guaranteed. The signal to step the payout stepup coil goes from the odds disc in top unit (where it decides if 1,2,3,4, or 5 coins is played), then through the appropriate X-disc (the 4 round wheels in top unit), and then finally down to the step up coil that moves the payboard. The signal or pulse from your roller switches go up to the top unit to go through the X-unit board via the x-unit coil and THEN go back down to the hopper payboard step up coil. A break anywhere there can cause runaway. I would try first, your odds disc, since it does runaway on all coins played as you say.
Read my section on checking for shorts, and also using jumpers. That will tell you how to test your step up coil.

OldReno · « **Reply #69 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:01:55 PM »

AFA the unknown coil in the top, you can trace the wires out from the switches and that may give a clue as to what it does.
OR, you can either shim the relay open (folded paper under coil armature), or rig it closed, and then play the machine.
If it blows fuses or gets hot real fast, then change it back, after noting results and sharing them with us.
Normally a relay like that does not have a yellow wire to the coil, it first goes through some kind of switch. Otherwise the coil would be on all the time since your yellow and your orange wires are the 50 volt system.

buybestslots · « **Reply #70 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:18:25 PM »

coil on top might be a lockout coil for a hand pay jackpot that was disable , what the highest payout?

rjpohl · « **Reply #71 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:38:49 PM »

For 7-7-7 and 5 coins top glass says 1000, above that if says $25000
there is a picture of the top glass on reply #12

thanks
Bob

Donner I'll give your suggestions a try, probably be after Christmas,
thanks Merry Christmas

buybestslots · « **Reply #72 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:48:06 PM »

it might payout 1000 coins 5 x 200 coins hopper has a 200 pay on it with the x unit it could pay it out I,m betting at one time that game paid 2000 coin jackpot and was changed to 1000 coin, so it won't need a lockout

OldReno · « **Reply #73 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:51:04 PM »

Generally the relays (coil with its switches) in the top unit are:
Odds reset relay (makes odds disc reset by pulsing reset solenoid) A solenoid is a coil with a hole and plunger in it. Takes more power to run than a simple relay.
Odds step up relay (works on 2nd through 5th coins in) which pulses the odds step up solenoid.
Jackpot lockup relay (#1) disables all X-units except X-2 and forces a 200 coin payout. (Generally true)
JPLU relay (#2) same thing as #1, but on different jackpot.
There are often others, and mostly they are marked somewhere.
You can manually push on the armatures of each of your relays with machine on, and you will see what they each do.

OldReno · « **Reply #74 on:** December 23, 2014, 05:58:28 PM »

@BBS, casinos did not like machines to payout 1000 coins at a pop. Most Ballys were set up to drop 200 coins when jackpot was 400 or more. Some would payout the full 400, but that's mostly for mixed bar machines with 5 coin capability.
I will admit tho', that a machine paying out 1,000 or 2,000 coins would attract a lot of customer attention, but then so did the bells and flashing lights.
Typical JP system uses the x2 multiplier, and bypasses the other selected multiplier, which is, I think part of the function of the Jackpot Lockup coil. It forces the X2, and kills the coin lockout coil so that customer cannot insert a coin and 'accidentally' play off his JP.
The circuit to bypass the JPLU, is the reset key switch (NO) on the side of machine, because, otherwise, it would be a Catch 22 situation, and attendant could not then let customer play off the win.

Hey, happy holydays, and Merry Christmas to you all....

rjpohl · « **Reply #75 on:** January 03, 2015, 04:52:37 AM »

Been a little under the weather and mixed in with the holidays so I haven't made any attempts to repair. Hopefully I can get back on it next week.
Thanks again for all the help/suggestions, it's really appreicated.

Bob

rjpohl · « **Reply #76 on:** January 10, 2015, 07:50:57 AM »

I'm attaching a Bally Manual 6000 from 1979. Due to size it will be in 5 downloads. Hopefully some one on the site can download them, combine into one file and upload to site.

Also I would like to find schematics for e/m's if any one can has them.

thanks
Bob

rjpohl · « **Reply #77 on:** January 10, 2015, 07:54:49 AM »

more downloads

rjpohl · « **Reply #78 on:** January 10, 2015, 07:56:25 AM »

last section

gooch · « **Reply #79 on:** January 25, 2015, 03:41:58 PM »

I mailed you the Bally manual Saturday, you should have it by Wednesday or Thursday of this week.

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Author Topic: first Reel not spinning properly on a three reel EM (Read 26763 times)