Bally Alpha 2 software on Alpha 1 20/20

[drhotwing]

Hello all, i'm new to these forums and have a question as i'm fairly new to Bally Alpha machines. I currently have two Alpha s9000 machines but I'm looking to get an Alpha 1 20/20 machine in order to play some newer games on it. Will the Alpha 1 20/20 machine play the Alpha 2 Grease game? There's one listed on Ebay but I don't want to buy it until I know it will work.
If it will work, what will I need to do on the 20/20 machine to make it work (I've read that you will need to upgrade the MPU and add memory).

Like I said, i'm new to this but I have a strong computer background.
Actually, I just purchased a reel kit for one of my s2000 machines so i'll get my feet wet soon. I also know my way around the Bally config screens.

Also, If I get the 20/20 machine and upgrade the MPU/memory, what Alpha 2 games can I play on it?

Thank you in advance. 

[rickhunter]

There are certain older alpha2 titles that will work on alpha 1 cpu as long as it is a 1ghz cpu with 1 or 2 MB of RAM (depending on title).   There's actually a thread on this forum that user coolwave started where he lists games that work on alpha 1 that are theoretically an alpha2 platform design.  Grease will not run on an alpha 1 cpu.  Pretty much any of the newer games will not work on the alpha 1 platform.


Upgrading a 20/20 to alpha 2 is not as simple as upgrading the mpu.  The backplane is different, you will also need an iDeck.  It will run you close to 2K in parts to upgrade a v20/20 to alpha 2.  I have done the conversion with both a V20/20 and a V32.  All alpha2 games will run on a conversion, if you do all the above parts.  You can run a few alpha2 titles on a conversion without an iDeck, but certainly not the newer ones you would want to run like Grease, Michael Jackson, David Copperfield, etc.

[drhotwing]

Thank you for the fast response!
so, maybe I would be better off to just find an Alpha 2 machine since it would cost me for the Alpha 1 20/20 machine and the conversion anyway.

I'm glad I didn't buy the Grease software yet, thanks.

[rickhunter]

Yes, at this stage of the game, you are about $700 difference between a conversion and a real alpha 2 cabinet (the conversion costing less).  I should point out that a alpha 2 pro V22/22 cabinet only has a touchscreen on the bottom screen.  Some of these games require dual touchscreens.  I don't think Grease requires the dual touchscreens, maybe someone else can verify this, since I don't ever remember making any choices at any time on the top screen, but since my cabinet has dual touchscreen I cannot confirm this without physically disconnecting the 2nd touchscreen.  If no one chimes in a couple of days, I will load up Grease on my V20/20 conversion and unplug the top touchscreen to see if the game will play.

[drhotwing]

So, i'm assuming that you have Grease and you are playing it on a converted Alpha 1 20/20? You lucky dog you

If I were to convert an Alpha 1 20/20 what exactly will I need to do to get it to work? Is it worth it?

If I go the conversion route i'll be getting the stuff I need slowly anyway

[rickhunter]

There are a couple of ways of doing the conversion. The easiest one is getting your hands on a bally conversion backplane.  Looks very similar to the alpha 1 backplane, but you can tell the difference in that the spacing between the two mpu connectors are closer on the alpha2 version.  Also the alpha2 version has an SPDIF coax output plug right in the middle of the backplane for the digital sound.  The board is hard to find and runs in the $700+ range when and if you find one. 


The other method is to "rig" alpha 2 pro parts and make them fit into your cabinet.  Not an easy task as in involves all kinds of custom made harnesses and rigging the alpha 1 power supplies to connect to the alpha2 pro's power distribution board, but it can be done.  There are a couple of dealers here that will sell those conversions, they run about $1k, but they use alpha2 pro parts (it doesn't seem to make a difference as I have done conversions both ways and seems to work either way).


You will need an alpha 2 mpu which runs around $500-$1000 depending on availability.


You will need an iDeck (make sure you get all harness with it) runs around $350-$850 depending on availability.


The alpha2 platform is finally on par and in some cases better than the my beloved WMS bb1/bb2 games.  There are only a few alpha1 video titles that hold up against the BB1 video titles.  But the alpha2 titles are definitely worth having.  If I was starting right now, I would save for an alpha2 upgright cabinet.  Here is a photo of my alpha2 conversion running Michael Jackson King of Pop.
 

[drhotwing]

Thanks for the information.
I noticed that the top screen displays sideways with MJ. Is there a way to get it upright?

Would MJ run on a v32? or does it need a 20/32 cabinet?

I was originally looking for a Alpha 2 machine but I can't seem to find one yet (I would need one that plays Grease or Michael Jackson). I'm assuming that it's too early and in a year or 2 they will become more available and cheaper.
 

[rickhunter]

Michael Jackson uses a V22/V32 cabinet.  The top monitor is vertically mounted.  The only way to have it look original is to buy a v32 touchscreen monitor and rig up a topbox to fit.  It is going to be one of my projects, but I have not gotten around to it.  A lot of people just have a 32 inch monitor mounted on a wall next to the machine, and they run the video cable out of the cabinet into the screen. Grease is a 3 horizontal screen game.  It will require a video topper to display certain bonus sequences.  Grease 2 is like Michael Jackson, it is a V22/V32 cabinet.  Those cabinets cost about as much as a small car when you can find them, and that is in used condition.  I was quoted like $11K for an original Michael Jackson cabinet.

[drhotwing]

I see that the Michael Jackson game fits on the v20 screens (even though the top screen is sideways), is there any cutoff?

Well, i'll probably start by actually getting the Alpha 1 V20 cabinet, then i'll begin replacing the parts. I ultimately want to get Michael Jackson to work on it.

Getting that 32" monitor to fit on top and look good will take some talent, I would definitely work on it, it beats dumping $11K on a game

[rickhunter]

There is no cutoff, the image is whole, just smaller.  MJ requires 2 screen, one for the reels and one for the bonus animations.  It also requires dual touchscreens as the original game allows you to spin the bonus wheel on either monitor.  It does not require the video topper, but if you have it, it will display the top progressive prize on it.  It will also display the word "bonus" when you have the bonus going.

[drhotwing]

Do the Alpha 1 v2020 machines have both touch screens? I can get one now for only $600.

Just to recap what I need to fully convert:

Bally Alpha 1 v20/20 machine
Alpha 2 MPU
Alpha 2 backplane board
iDeck
video topper (for some games)

Am I missing anything else needed?

[rickhunter]

Some don't.  You would have to look at the top monitor for the presence of a serial port indicating a touchscreen enabled monitor.
The alpha2 parts list is correct.  There is a 5.1 surround board that is optional if you get the older style alpha 2 mpu (the one with the mini-jack style sound).  The newer alpha 2 mpu's do not have the minijacks to plug in the stereo analog, so it will require the 5.1 surround board.


The video topper also requires the larger led/bezel controller board dated 2009.


When buying parts:


1. Make sure your MPU has a bios chip installed, you don't want to be hunting for bios chip later, just make sure it comes with it and an sjur chip.
2. Make sure your iDeck has ALL cable harnesses.  That includes the usb cable coming out of the touchscreen controller, the video cable for the display, the power cable, and the mechanical button harness with the actual switch actuator installed. (My first iDeck did not come with the switch part nor the harness to connect to backplane, had to make one up and harvest a switch from another alpha deck I had).

[drhotwing]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of the questions I have.

It appears to be a long road before I have Michael Jackson playing in my "Casino Room" lol
I have a feeling that i'm going to be looking for an ideck for a long time as I don't see any around. I found a new MPU for $750 but i'll likely look for the older one with rca sound.
Also, finding the Michael Jackson game card will likely be another trip. Last one of those I seen was on Ebay for like $180 but was purchased.

Do you know of anyone on here that has a complete conversion kit with the MPU, board, and ideck by any chance?

What I can do is buy the Grease game card as an incentive to get the conversion done

I do have an idea if the top half of the machine comes off (like the wheel tower Alpha does), I can build a frame for the 32" monitor, laminate it, and bolt it onto the bottom...

[rickhunter]

Yes, the top is just screwed on by like 6 screws.  It comes right off.  That is my future project.  To remove the topbox and then build a holder the for the 32 inch monitor.  I was looking at one of the v20/v32 alpha 1 cabinet (I think it was a Fireball cabinet if If I'm not mistaken) and the box is just a support for the monitor and a backing to hide the cables.

[drhotwing]

Would you be able to use a Bally Alpha 1 5 reel (no monitor) cabinet to convert to Alpha 2? This is what i'm thinking...I can get this machine very cheap.

* take out the 5 reels and install a 20" monitor
* take the top off and build a 32" monitor frame and install a 32" monitor
* perform full conversion inside (MPU, backboard)
* install iDeck

The machine looks the same at the S9000's but no monitor on top (just frames glass)

Is this possible?