Need Help With Old Slot Machine. 2 Issues

[dballs]

Hi all! My Dad gave me this old Bally's slot machine before he passed as a birthday gift and I would love to get it working properly again in his honor. It says 1982 on it but a guy from Vegas that works on these once told me it might be a "repainted" late 70's model? Anyways here the problems:

1. 95% of the time it spits out 1 extra quarter when someone wins. So when they get 1 cherry it should just give 2 quarters but it gives 3. When you get 3 watermelons it should give 20 quarters but it gives 21 and so on. Any ideas?

2. There is a loud buzzing from the coin accepter mechanism. You can see in this pic: https://imgur.com/WrZOrZJ where the green arrow is pointing where the buzzing comes from. It looks like maybe a spring should be connected from the green arrow to the blue arrow? I don't know. How can I stop the buzzing? PS if you put 3 quarters in the buzzing stops till you pull the handle.

Thanks!

Here are some pics:

[shortrackskater]

Welcome to NLG!
For future posts, please don't use offsite image hosts as they always will disappear over time, leaving the future reader photo-less!
Thank you.
Someone should be along soon to give you a hand. 

[dballs]

Welcome to NLG!
For future posts, please don't use offsite image hosts as they always will disappear over time, leaving the future reader photo-less!
Thank you.
Someone should be along soon to give you a hand. 

Sure thing. Sorry about that. All my images were ~3-4mb and the cap was 1mb is the only reason I did it this way.

[DavidLee]

The payout step up unit on the left side of the hopper may need some attention.

Check to see if it springs back completely in one rapid motion.

Possibly adjusting it forward just a fraction would help.

This would cause the contracts to leave the receiver strips at the correct time.

Yes, there’s a spring missing. Possibly still in the machine amongst the door apparatus.

[wolftalk]

you've done your homework :-)

assuming there is no model/serial number plate on the outside of the cabinet below the handle, it's a model 831 (3 line pay).   There may be model number writing in sharpie on the reel wiper boards, the metal frames or the top insert board.

it's possible it's a 5 line pay machine that someone replaced the glass and made some modifications to ... would need to see pictures of the insert board in the top compartment.

1] overpay

your 3rd picture is the brake mechanism on the hopper motor.  If it's crudded up, it may not stop the motor armature as intended and you can get a +1 coin overpay.   You can usually shoot a reasonably plastic safe solvent like isopropyl alcohol or mass airflow sensor cleaner at the thing to wash out dried grease.  Since it's plastic on metal, no lubrication is needed.

the other way to get a +1 overpay is the payout counter (unit on the hopper) needs some adjustment. 

there's a linkage bar extending between the coin pivot roller and the payout counter.  When an exiting coin lifts the roller, the bar moves down.  Use your finger to push the bar down/release and watch the wipers to see if they step off the end of the traces at the number printed on the trace.

e.g. the wiper contacts step off the 10 trace on the 10th step of the unit, but must be on the trace on the 9th step of the unit.

if the wipers aren't stepping off the trace end convincingly, you have to loosen the circuit trace plate and twist it to align the wipers to the contact plate.  The screws to loosen are under the spiral cam, so hopefully that's not your issue.

occasionally the ends of the trace can elongate due to arcing melting the metal a little.  In that case, trim off the protrusion.  However, that's not likely to happen to most/all pays, just one or two of the most common pays.

it's also possible the roller height is too low so the payout counter is not stepping fast enough.  The roller arm should push the bar all the way down and compress the spring a little bit more in the bar slot, but as long as it pushes the bar down all the way, that's good.  You need to use a coin to set the roller arm height when the roller is at the top of the coin.

2] the coil behind the coin mech is the coin lockout coil.  It's powered whenever the game will accept a coin, and both the armature plate and coil top get worn.

yup, there should be a spring where you indicated, but it may make it buzz worse when installed.

you can try:

- remove the coin mech and armature plate.  If the armature plate has dimples worn in it, whack it with a hammer on an anvil to try and flatten them out

- file the nubs or post on the coil top to remove any burrs and try and make it flat.  You want the armature plate to seat squarely on the coil top

- stick a piece of tape on the armature plate to dampen the vibration

- if you don't care about the game keeping coins when it should return them to the tray, disconnect the coil and remove the armature plate (or cover the hole in the mech so the armature tab can't poke into the coin path thru the mech).

the spring is also what pulls the armature into the mech when the coil is unpowered.  If your game is properly rejecting coin to the tray after the third coin is inserted or when the power is off, then I'd pull the mech and see if someone bodged it to somehow move the armature.

the trick is if you install too strong a spring, whenever the AC voltage passes thru 0V (120 times/second in the USA), the armature will lift off the coil top then immediately pull back on, creating a buzz.  The buzz also happens if the armature plate can rock on the coil top due to uneven wear.

[dballs]

Wow! Thank you soooo much for all your help! You clearly know your stuff.

1) We had some mass airflow sensor cleaner I tried spraying it down. That didn't help. I liked what you said about the tracers not lining up. When I press the bar down to bring the wipers back to home position I saw what stops the red disc with all the wipers attached and noticed that is meant to be adjusted but a stopper (in picture). I pointed to it with green arrows in the pic. I tried adjusting the stopper up and then the machine wouldn't pay anything out lol. So I adjusted it down a little and it seemed to be paying out correctly ~80% of the time. I then adjusted it more down and it was working 90%+. But after a lot of plays it started to revert to over paying. I took it out one last time and maxed it out and it seems to be paying 100% so far! The rubber on the bottom of that stop is pretty worn and not even. I think last time it just rotated to a low point.

2) So I removed the coin accepter and removed the buzzing piece of metal. It had some old tape on it that was falling off. I tossed some fresh electrical tape and it wouldn't take any coins lol. So I removed some of the tape I put on so there was one layer and that seems to do the trick. It still hums but not obnoxiously loud any more. Do they always have a little hum? Now it accepts coins like 85% of the time and I just have to try again. Will putting a spring on it help? There is a little extra spring in packaging tucked into the bottom of the machine (pictured). Should I toss that on?

[DavidLee]

Those EOS stops are very temperamental when adjusting.
It has been mentioned in the past that pencil erasers work as a replacement.

Using 1/4 inch thick wall automotive vacuum hose cut 1/4 inch long will work.

In regards to the unit itself.
There is a switch actuator/armature that is vacant of the actual switch.
That is typically in most machines of this type.
Possibly Wolftalk can shed some light on this missing switch stack.

See photo

[wolftalk]

when the lockout coil and armature are new, they don't hum enough to really notice) or buzz and there's no tape.  The tape is dampening the buzz caused by worn parts. 

wrt to cleaning the motor brake, operate the thing with your finger and if it moves freely (not sticking), it's fine.

if you have to lower the zero stop bumper so far down the top of the threaded shaft is below the locking nut, then do what david said to replace the bumper rubber. 

you are loosening/raising the lock nut before turning the bumper down, right?  If you just raise the bumper screw, the lock nut usually comes with it and when you lower the bumper it bottoms on the frame and you can't go lower.

you need to hold the bumper screw and loosen/raise the lock nut on the bumper screw, position the bumper where you want, then hold the bumper screw again and snug down the lock nut.

or if you want to cheat and just assume you are offsetting bumper wear, hold the bumper screw, raise the lock nut a little and turn the bumper screw to mash the lock nut on top of the frame again.  That'll lower the bumper a little more, and if happy give the lock nut an extra snug down.

sometimes you can just turn the bumper screw to raise the bumper and nut, and when the nut is not touching the frame any more you can spin up the nut a little with your finger, then lower the bumper until the nut bottoms out.  Again, snug the nut when happy and you should not be able to easily raise the bumper without loosening the nut.

the nut is really acting like a double-nut because the frame is also threaded ... the idea is to position the bumper where you want, then turn the nut down and tighten to wedge the threads and lock the nut and bumper into place.
 
from your pics (before and after), your wiper reset position looks too far clockwise.  You can kinda see a black mark on the 2 trace ... that is probably about where the wipers should be at reset.


the missing switch that is normally operated by the triangular plastic piece hitting the stop bumper disconnects the payout counter reset coil when the payout counter is reset.  The idea is don't fire the reset coil when the unit doesn't need resetting. 

if someone removed the switch and tied the orange/black 78-1 and black/white 85-1 wires together, the game would still work, it would just fire the payout counter reset coil every time the game is reset.

it's also possible a switch that is lifted by the pawls on the back of the unit is being used for this function.  You can either remove the top/right bolt on the payout counter frame so you can tip the unit down (and push down the spring on the step linkage so the roller arm comes out of the slot) or just look for the 78-1 and 85-1 wires around the left edge of the unit and see where they go.

tmi below:
------------
the rubber stop bumper I'm going to confuse you on ... but fwiw:

1] the stop bumper position determines the reset position of the spiral cam and wipers.

2] the spiral cam/wipers are connected to the ratchet/gear on the other side via flats on the shaft

3] the step-up and reset pawls are what turn the ratchet, and therefore turn the spiral cam and wipers

4] when the payout counter is reset, the pawls are lifted and held off the ratchet teeth.  You can move the wipers and they should return to reset.

5] in the first step of the payout counter, the pawls flop down onto the teeth.  The step-up pawl pushes the cam/wipers one tooth worth of distance, and the reset pawl stops the ratchet from turning "backwards" when the step-up pawl is retracted to grab the next tooth when the next coin exits the hopper.

so whenever you move the zero stop bumper, you are also repositioning the reset position of the ratchet teeth.  This can effect which ratchet tooth the first step of the unit grabs.

you want the first step of the unit to rotate the cam/wipers the same amount as the second+ steps ... i.e only grab one ratchet tooth, not two.

once the zero stop is adjusted so you get the one-tooth rotation, if the wipers aren't stepping off the ends of the pay traces enough or on the right step, then you need to twist the trace board - which is done by loosening a couple screws under the spiral cam and cocking the board to position the traces where you want wrt to the wiper contacts.

before taking things apart tho, you can just try adjusting the zero stop bumper height so the wipers step off the 2 trace on the second step of the unit.

[dballs]

Thanks again all! 

1)Seems setting the stop bumper all the way down did the trick. If it's working correctly do I need to mess with the teeth issue? Or the missing part you are talking about?

2)Played it quite a lot last night and I think it's paying out correct 99% of the time.  I am finding a quarter or two inside the machine on the bottom "floor" of the unit just in front of the hopper. I am guessing any missing quarters from a pay is due to this.

3)There are some holes at drilled into the top wood of the machine I am guessing used to have a light on it? Maybe for the service button or winning a jack pot?

4)It rejects about every 10th quarter I drop in it. Will adding the missing spring help this?

But all in all I am happy and fine with how it's working! Polished the chrome and it's looking nice.

Now on to my Dad's old early 1900's Mills Horse Head quarter fully mechanical machine which needs lots of work I am sure... But I'll post about that in it's proper thread.

[wolftalk]

1)Seems setting the stop bumper all the way down did the trick. If it's working correctly do I need to mess with the teeth issue? Or the missing part you are talking about?

nope.  Sounds like it was just wear on the bumper and lowering it a bit got everything back where it needed to be at reset.

2] I'll leave this for other folks with more machines to say something about

3] yup, the hole is for a light "tower" or "candle".  Typically 2 lights ... one for jackpot and one when service button pushed ... the idea was the floor people could see them above the machines and doddle over to deal with you.

4] the spring moves the armature tab into the mech and makes the coins reject.  Without the spring the machine is more likely to accept coins that do nothing. 

you can attach the small spring ... it looks like the right one for that spot.

it's more likely the mech is just a bit cruddy or the adjustable bar that's on the back of a lot of them needs to be shifted over a bit it so it's more lenient.

the coin drops in the top and the cradle tips it to the right.  Make sure the cradle is pivoting freely.   The coin then rolls under the magnet, so make sure there's no crud along the path or on the magnet.  Some mechs you can adjust the magnet gap.

once past the magnet, the coin bounces off the right side of the mech and falls either in the accept or reject areas.  If you have the bar, that changes the sizes of those areas.

anything that slows the coin down can make it reject, so look for that.

to eliminate the lockout mechanism, stick a piece of tape over the hole in the back of the mech so the lockout coil armature tab can't poke into the mech.  If you still have the problem, it's the mech.
   

[DavidLee]

Glad you got it sorted out and cleaned up.
Post a picture when you get a chance.

Those older mechanical machines
look complicated at first.
Sometimes it is difficult to get to some of the inner parts.
Post a few pictures when you start working on it.