Bally Grand Old Flag 3 quarter slot

[RandallTwo]

I have a neighbor with a Bally (EM?) slot machine.  Right now it doesn't accept coins.  Lights up and parts seem to move freely enough.  I look to confirm the kind of machine it is, and to find a manual to help diagnose it.  I have pictures, but am still trying to figure out how to load them here.
d.

[RandallTwo]

Found how to attach pictures.
d.

[T-Rav1980]

Looking at the door picture (third pic, right below where the coins are inserted), there doesn't seem to be a coin in the coin comparator. Not real familiar with your machine and the coin comparator that is in it, but you might try that. It might help to describe what happens when you start the machine. Are there any error codes? Do the reels lock up when you start it? Does the coin just fall right straight through into the tray when you put one in?

[shortrackskater]

Looking at the door picture (third pic, right below where the coins are inserted), there doesn't seem to be a coin in the coin comparator.

That's a coin mechanism - no sample coin needed.

Topic moved to Bally EM.

[wolftalk]

schematic and reel wiper diagrams for the 1090-34 are in https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/

if you'd like to email highest possible resolution pictures to slotpics@cdyn.com, I'll add them there.  A picture of the payout counter disc on the hopper would be good (it's got the copper circuit traces on it), and a picture of the code stamped into the slotted metal index disc on reel 1.

if an inserted coin drops back into the tray, the coil behind the coin mech on the door is not getting powered for some reason.

if the game keeps the coin but doesn't do anything, the coin switch may be bad or there's a problem getting the coin relay on the left side of the reel mechanism to power.

1] what happens when a coin is dropped in?
2] what happens if you push down the L-shaped coin switch tripwire under the coin mech and let go?

do you have a voltmeter?

[DavidLee]

If the coin drops directly into the tray.

Remove the coin mechanism clean with compressed air.
Bench test by observing how the coin travels through.
As there’s two options, left and right.

I believe the left side triggers the coin switch and the right returns the coin.

If the decelerator magnet is out of adjustment the coin travels to fast and directly into the tray.
Turning the adjustment screw out 1/4 might help. If it doesn’t, then turn it back 1/4.
Also there’s a little diverter adjustment on the back side held in place by a screw.
Make sure it is still attached, but no need to adjust unless it has become loose.

Reinstalling the unit, it helps to depress the return coin lever on the top of the unit.
As it comes into contact with the coin return mechanism in the door.

Next would be the switch, coin lockout mechanism/operation.
This is associated with the coin relay switch located left bottom corner of the reel mechanism.
Dirty contacts will cause the machine to malfunction.

[RandallTwo]

I was able to take pictures and upload to slotpics@cdyn.
Coin mechanism.  In my hands, the coins drop out the left exit.  The microswitch is in that path.
The lockout solenoid is not energized, causing the coins to return to the tray.  This is not good.
The insert coin light does not go out.  (The coin accepted light does not come on.  may be a bad bulb.)
I have a voltmeter and know how to use it.
I plan to find the coil circuit for the coin relay (it moves a plate below the coin mechanism to divert coins to the hopper?) and decide why it is not energized.
Thanks for the posts.  It is a help.
dave

[DavidLee]

Okay, great

Move to the coin relay switch. Bottom left reels chassis.
Pull the chassis out and check to see if the mechanism is latched, the spring associated with the coil is in tact. Check for broken wires. Clean all Contacts
Check the beau plugs on the back of the chassis for broken or pushed in pins.
Reinstall the chassis and give it a try.
If it doesn’t work, remove the reels chassis again.
This time check all coin relay contacts for continuity.

Making 1 or 2 adjustments at a time is a good practice.
Too many adjustments at one time can cause problems as in fouling up something that was already working.
Thus creating more headaches and spending time trying to figure out what is wrong.

[wolftalk]

the coil behind the coin mech is called the "coin lockout coil" at C-12 on the schematic.

if you stick a meter probe on orange wire 70 on any convenient coil and poke the other probe anywhere on the yellow highlighted circuit below, you should see 50VAC unless the coin unit has stepped up all the way (3 coins played) AND the coin relay (david's post #7) is tripped (after first coin inserted, before handle pulled).

wire color codes are on the schematic and in a sticky post on the forum.   Accessing a lot of the switches would require pulling out units, clipping a probe/jumper wire to the switch wire and stuffing the unit back in.

if the problem is cruddy plug connections, just removing/reinserting units can make the problem go away - for a while.

ignoring the lockout coil itself for the moment, just operating the coin switch tripwire with your finger and seeing if the handle releases will tell you a lot about what is/isn't working.  Ideally manually release the handle by pushing down the handle release relay armature plate and spin the reels.  That'll reset the handle release relay and the coin relay so you are in the state shown in the schematic.

if you aren't sure how to release the handle, a bad video of one way is here:
   https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/videos/Handle_Release.m4v

you don't have the yellow solenoid coil in front of the release relay coil like the video shows ... and your handle release relay coil has a yellow wrapper.

[RandallTwo]

Thanks,
I started basic diagnostics.  The coin solenoid under the coin mechanism does not suck in.  The deflector plate does not move and Coins fall thru to the body of the machine, missing the coin hopper.  They do not fall back to the return bucket.
I did not get voltage on the solenoid, found a poor solder job and loose wire to it.  Have not yet checked continuity or resistance value. for the coil.
d.

[wolftalk]

the deflector on the door is called the "coin diverter".

the coin diverter coil is powered all the time unless the level relay powers.

the level relay powers when a microswitch on the hopper closes indicating the hopper is full on.

the diverter just sends the coin into the hopper or into the overflow chute.  The overflow chute usually dumped down into a bucket in the stand the machine was sitting on.

the diverter not working would not affect the game play.  If a coin dropped in exits the coin mech and pushes down the trip wire on the coin switch, then the coin lockout circuit is working and the next thing to see is if the coin relay in david's post #7 is tripping.

summary:

1] when you turn the machine on, the coin lockout coil should power unless three coins have been played AND the handle is unlocked.

2] the powered coin lockout coil pulls the armature plate and retracts a tab poking into the coin mech.  The tab causes a coin to reject back out to the tray

3] the coin diverter should power unless the hopper has enough coins in it to compress the springs at the bottom of the bowl - which would close a microswitch powering the hopper level relay.  A switch on the hopper level relay would open and turn off power to the coin diverter coil

4] dropping a coin in when the lockout coil is powered should cause the coin to exit the mech and toggle the coin switch tripwire

5] when the tripwire goes down, the coin relay should power (1st coin) and the coin unit inside the top compartment should reset.   Coins 2-3 cause the coin unit to step up.

6] when the coin switch tripwire goes back up on the 1st coin, the handle release relay should trip allowing the handle to be pulled.
 

[RandallTwo]

Okay, more...
The handle release was wire-tied back and the handle and wheels worked.
Found a fuse out, unplugged, and not blown. (one of four on the backwall behind the reels. Orange and Red wires to the fuse holder.)
I promise to take a picture of the back wall with everything out.  Today.
d.

[wolftalk]

the fuse with orange/red and orange wires is the 8 amp 50V fuse.

if they didn't bypass the fuse, then that fuse blown or missing would mean nothing would work except the lights.

before replacing the fuse, check all the coils except for the delay relay (which is 120V) for signs of an obviously cooked one. 

if the fuse blows and you can't see anything obvious, you might want to get an 8A circuit breaker so you don't need a bucket of fuses while looking for the issue.  These things:
   https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Breakers-Overload-Protector-Waterproof/dp/B07XF5C2H3

solder on wires and alligator clips, or if you have multiple breakers you can crimp on spade connectors so you can attach the wires to whatever amp breaker you need.

[RandallTwo]

Thanks,
You are flying at 10,000 feet and I am trying to get the engine started.
I started with primary power.  Off-print wiring was done, but within the existing harnesses.  Only hot is fused. Neutral shows a fuse, but the ferrule is used as a binding point.
Primary transformer voltages:  54.4 vac and 6.92 vac.
Inspected connectors, trying to identify wire colors.
Moving the harness between the fuses (fuse connector) and the safety/tilt switch, the coin divertor sucked in.
letting loose of it and the relay dropped.
The harness looks good and has most of the original nylon string on it.
Checked the connector without pulling it apart.
Holding the harness in various positions caused the divertor to energize.  even held, it would drop out sometimes.
the suggestions include replacing each wire, the connector, and ....??
thanks again,
d.

[DavidLee]

Wolftalk will most likely post a wiring diagrams highlighting the wire(s) linked to the plug / switch.
I myself would not replace a large wire connector, rather try fixing it first.
It’s possible there’s a broken wire in proximity to what you’re moving.

Possibly the machine is powering up on the secondary side of the transformer when the wires are moved.

Posting a picture of the area this problem is occurring would be helpful.

Glad to hear positive progress is being made.

[RandallTwo]

I agree about not replacing the connector.  50 year old tech is brittle at best.
I knew you would like to see the picture.  I added a comment.
d.

[DavidLee]

I would suspect the orange wire then the black.
Have you separated the connector?
This area doesn’t see much action and malfunction would be rare.
A very slim chance that wire bundle got caught on the hopper and pulled on very hard.
Inspect the actual pins and receptors for damage, burned or pushed back.
Possible limp wire coming out of the plug indicating a break.
The black tape looks to be a termination for the factor ties.
And it doesn’t appear to be covering any damage/ corrections.
Past experience with black tape that’s not factory, it could be covering a bad connection.

Also the area indicated by the yellow line could have a broken wire.
But like I mentioned previously, by moving these wires a near by connection could be faulty.

Making good progress.
Thanks for the nice clear picture.

[wolftalk]

you'll probably find the issue with david's comment, but if you need to resort to using a meter, stick one meter probe on yellow wire 30 on the coin switch and the other probe on:

- orange/red wire 71-1 on the wire (transformer to fuse wire)
- orange wire 70 on the fuse
- orange wire 70 on the top side of the plug connection in your pic

wiggle/flex wires near what you are probing to find the problem.

either the fuse holder has a problem, there's a poor solder joint, the plug connection is bad, or most/all of the strands of a wire are broken.

the black tape in this case looks to be factory based on pics of similar games.  Seems to be common on wire bundles going to a plug/socket.

the power cord connection to the game is confusing and inconsistent over all the bally slots.  Not using the fuse in the neutral power circuit is normal for games running on 120V.  For 220/240V machines, both power cord wires were fused.

if you get a chance to look, where are the white and black wires connected to the fuses that aren't the power cord ones going?  They probably go to the plug connection, but where to after that ... or nowhere and bally was thinking you could connect the power cord to the game by crimping pins onto the wires and plugging them into the connector so they mate to those two wires.

I dunno if there was some regulatory issue somewhere that made a mess of this stuff, but you'd think the power cord wires connects to same color wires in the game, but not always.  It's ac power, so functionally it doesn't matter.  'course, black wire for hot and white for neutral is just a usa convention ... other countries use different colors.

the original design kept the hot side of the ac going to fewer/safer places, but maybe  someone mandated the hot goes to the fuse, and it's been snafu since then.

[RandallTwo]

Bally Grand Old Flag slot machine summary      January 31, 2024

Original conditions
•   Found wire off the coin divertor coil.
•   Found fuse out for the 50v supply.

Machine fluorescent lights were lit.  Therefore the 120 vac section is okay from the fuses through the harness and connector.  The secondaries on the main transformer were correct, so it seems the transformer is good.
Some of the low-voltage lights on the front were lit.  Therefore 6 vac power is being passed thru the harness.  That implies that blue [2 :hail:0] and yellow [30] were continuous thru the connector.
That leaves orange [70] and orange/red [71] as possible broken wire candidates.  Orange/red is a small wire by comparison, and I would try to replace it first.
There is an extra neutral on the 240 vac optional fuse holder; red [10] and black [80] tied to white [50] on the power cord.  It runs in that same harness as the other wires.  This may be a separate connection to another point.  Red [10] looks right for the transformer connection.

Solution.  Showed my neighbor the intermittent connection by moving the harness around in the machine.  He supported it by tying it off to another cable and the coin divertor stayed energized.  What the heck.  We slid the coin hopper and reels back into the machine and the lights stayed on!!  He closed the door and locked it.  Slid a quarter in, pulled the handle and promptly won 10 quarters!  First try!!

Amazing help from you guys.  He plans to sell it eventually and I want a 1% cut for helping to repair it.  I plan to donate the money to New Life Games.  Your knowledge and documents are fabulous.

Thanks,
d.

[wolftalk]

Solution.  Showed my neighbor the intermittent connection by moving the harness around in the machine.  He supported it by tying it off to another cable and the coin divertor stayed energized.  What the heck.  We slid the coin hopper and reels back into the machine and the lights stayed on!! 

usually that means the wire is broken, a solder joint is bad or a plug connection is bad and you're holding it in a position where it's making/improving contact. 

problem is the contact may be high resistance and it will get hot and burn.  If it's a molex (white plastic) connector issue, then you have to replace the charred/melted housing.

quick check is tug on the orange and orange/red wires where they connect to various places around the harness you are moving.    If you pull them off, they needed fixing anyway.   Check the connector shells for discoloration ... they turn yellow/brown with heat, then eventually black.  I'd pull the connectors and look for discoloration on the pins.

rarely the wire is broken inside the insulation but not at an end where it's attached to something - usually from the wire getting pinched.  Grab the wire at any two places along the length of a continuous wire strand (no connections in between where you are grabbing) and pull hard ... if the wire inside it good, it won't do anything.  If the wire is broken, you'll stretch the insulation and pull it apart.