Bally 1090? (New to me)

[jimliner]

Hi,

     I have a spare that I can send.   Along with a new socket in case you want to replace it also. 
   Two to pick from if indeed you would like one sent.   

[jimliner]

Top 3 pics in above post are of the original style.  Bottom two pics are newer style. 

[Pinballwizard55]

Alaska John, reach out to me as i may have the parts you desire, maybe even a tray and bottom cabinet piece, Don lee. 1 917 992 2803

[AlaskaJohn]

Awesome.  Will do.  Thanks.

[AlaskaJohn]

your jumper wire position in the relay socket looks reasonable, so we'll assume you've connected wire 70 to 12 correctly.

if you want to sanity check, got a couple jumper wires with alligator clips?  If yes:

1] connect a jumper end to the grey/yellow wire on the payout relay coil.  The payout relay is the top one on the hopper with the two stacks of switches.

2] shove the hopper back in the game with the jumper hanging out

3] turn on the machine and touch the other end of the jumper to the yellow wire on the coin switch on the door.

does the hopper motor turn on and coins start spitting out while the jumper is connected?  If yes, your relay socket jumper is good and you now have to debug a problem in the payout circuits.

Thanks.  And yes, I do have a couple jumpers with aligator clips.  I will give this a try over the weekend and follow-up if I have questions or discoveries.

[AlaskaJohn]

Okay. I might have made matters worse.

1) The new relay arrived from jimliner. Thanks! Put it in the socket, played until I hit cherry on first reel. Nothing.

2) Attached jumper to the grey/yellow on payout relay coil and other end on yellow wire of coin switch. (See photos). Hopper turned a until quarters filled the slots then it stopped. Completely.

Now nothing. Previously working door lights are out. Pressing coin switch does nothing.

I assume I blew a fuse, but the three in the back that I am aware of all look good.

[AlaskaJohn]

Here are some more interesting photos .. or maybe not?

There appears to be at least 3 connections without wires. (All on back of hopper)

I will dig into wire diagrams and see what I can find.

[AlaskaJohn]

Quick update... after letting it sit for 5 minutes with it unplugged, I turned it back on and it's working as before.  So.. at least it's not worse than it was before i started.

[AlaskaJohn]

Progress!

I figured that at some level my problem must be with the payout system, so I pulled it out and disconnected the two plugs. As I pulled the plugs I checked them to make sure I knew which one was which. Low and behold, the pins did not match the plugs. Previous owner had swapped them!

Now a reel combo that results in a payout activates the hopper. Unfortunately no coins come out, but then I noticed there also might be a missing piece to the hopper (someone mentioned potential missing pieces earlier in this thread).

[63mini]

Unfortunately no coins come out, but then I noticed there also might be a missing piece to the hopper (someone mentioned potential missing pieces earlier in this thread).

 AlaskaJohn,

  That is where the knife, outlet cover assy. and hopper baffle go.  Also, it looks like your agitator (black star) is turning to tar.  They tend to disintegrate over time.

[wolftalk]

Now nothing. Previously working door lights are out. Pressing coin switch does nothing.

I assume I blew a fuse, but the three in the back that I am aware of all look good.

no worries, the safety delay circuit kicked in because it saw the hopper running without the payout counter unit stepping up.  Your game will complete shut down very quickly when that happens to prevent uncounted coins from dumping out to a very happy player.

pushing on the bar your white arrow is pointing to in post 7 will reset the timer and wake up the game. 

the timer is just a motor turning a cam.  If the cam rotates far enough, the safety cuts off the main power.  The circuit briefly disconnects the motor periodically when the payout counter is stepping and the spring-loaded cam resets.  Power cycling the whole machine effectivey does the same thing ... ya don't need to wait - off and on will do it.

without the knife (60 that 63mini circled for ya), the coin won't lift up the roller arm, so the game should shut down again since it's the switches that arm operates that step up the payout counter.

[AlaskaJohn]

Thanks wolftalk and 63mini! This is all great info... not least of which for the names of the parts. I could see them in the exploded view.. and I could see them in the 1088 photo ...(https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1088/pics/1088%20-%20hopper%20mixer%20and%20pinwheel.jpg) .. but couldn't find a name for them.

It sounds like pinballwizard55 might have the parts I need.

Its progress for sure.

While waiting on parts I will start trying to track down lighting issues. Only the bottom door lights work (bottom behind belly glass).

I was reading that maybe there is a way to test lights with a jumper? Since no obvious wiring issues I can see so far, seems like testing with jumper will help narrow down where the break is?

[wolftalk]

the belly glass is lit by a 120V flourescent tube that's always on.  There's another tube above the reel window opening.

the rest of the lamps on the door and on the top are on the 6VAC circuit.

if you look at the lamp sockets, there will be a blue wire (20) on one side of the socket (may be a bare wire on the top panel ... follow it around and see if a blue is attached someplace).

you can put one meter probe on the blue wire and the other probe on the yellow wire (30) on the coin switch and you should get 6VAC.  If you don't, see if the plug connection to the door is burnt or the blue wire is broken at one of the sockets (it daisy chains, so there's often two wire segments attached to each socket.  If one breaks off, you lose all lighting to any socket downstream). 

if you get 6VAC, then put your probes on the blue wire and the other wire on the socket.  If no 6V, then whatever is controlling that light is not turning it on.

[AlaskaJohn]

Okay, I confirmed two of the florrescents need replaced by swapping bulbs after I also replaced the starters. New bulbs (F8T5/CW) should arrive tomorrow.

As for the 6V loop, first thing was a broken fuse holder. That replaced  I followed blue wire up to this thing (See photo) that has detached wires.  I don't see a similar unit in the 1088 photos I have been comparing to.

It is unclear to me where Y and B get attached.

The other end of B goes to what I assume is a transformer (122-105).. in 2nd photo.
The other end of B2 goes to the fuse.
 
In other news, I picked up a replacement coin tray.
PinballWizard55 has the hopper parts I need (knife, etc) and I am just waiting on shipping costs from him.

[wolftalk]

in post 26:

Here are some more interesting photos .. or maybe not?

There appears to be at least 3 connections without wires. (All on back of hopper)

those blades are connected to blades beneath them by bare wire.  It's one of the ways they wires things when a circuit branches and a single wire feeds two other wires thru separate switches. 

they just stripped the wire extra long and ran the bare end to two blades.

occasionally you'll see two or more switches wired in parallel like that for redundancy.

in post 33, that relay wasn't put there by bally.  It looks like it disconnects the 50V and 6V to most of the game.  There's a couple reasons why it may be there:

1] a remote way to shut off some of the game power

in your case, not all the power - the flourescents would still work.  The game would just not do anything and reject any inserted coin.

2] a low voltage detect/anti-cheat mechanism. 

One way people cheated machines was to connect them to a variac (adjustable AC power source).  The goal was the turn the voltage down so some stuff worked and some stuff didn't.  For example, if you could get the hopper motor to turn on but not have enough power to step-up the payout counter, then any win would dump the hopper contents.

the newer safety circuit prevented this technique tho.  It's also one of the reasons why the coils are sometimes different on solenoids and relays - they want to guarantee that if one circuit doesn't work due to low power, a different circuit won't work either.

personally, I'd remove the relay and restore the wiring to factory.  You can look at any 1090 schem.  e.g.:
- the orange/red double wire should connect directly to the transformer on lug 2 (where the solid orange wire is)
- the blue/red double wire should connect directly to transformer lug 10 (where the solid blue wire is)

both those redundant double wires go to the plug below the transformer and thru there to the fuses:
- orange/red -> 5A fuse -> orange 50V hot wire 70
- blue/red -> 15A fuse -> blue 6V hot wire 20


need a picture from further back showing all the wiring in that area to see what is going on, but it looks like there's some splices that would need to be corrected. 

it looks like the 6V from the transformer is not going anywhere useful ... the obvious thing would be a mating switch on that added relay.  However, it also looks like one of the blue wires from the added relay is connecting into a 120V circuit, so you really need to make sure what is going on before connecting those two blue wires together ... or if getting rid of the added relay, remove all the modifications and make sure you have things back to what the schematic says.

[David Walz]

My 1090 detailed repairs.

https://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=19353.0