Sound toggle switch?

[Talarspeed]

I'm working my way through my early S+ project (posted in separate topic). I pretty much got it working although it is a worn out looking machine. 


One issue: no sound except the solenoids of the reels stoping. The dip switch on the MPU is set to on. I believe that the volume wheel on the MPU board has been pushed past its stopping point. It is very hard to rotate.


My question: is this toggle switch for sound supposed to be on the inside of the door?  I haven't see this posted or mentioned while exploring different topics. Also, can I assume that the speaker is behind the plate on the inside of the door (because I haven't seen it anywhere else)?


Thank you!

[Amechanic]

That switch is not factory, and was put there for some reason. Maybe the volume wheel was stuck in the loud position. That might explain the on off switch.

[Shaggy]

I'm working my way through my early S+ project (posted in separate topic).  Also, can I assume that the speaker is behind the plate on the inside of the door (because I haven't seen it anywhere else)?


Thank you!

Yes on the early machines it behind that plate.

[therockinelvis]

I have seen a switch mounted there many times for bill validator. Could just as easy be wired into the speaker wires

[rokgpsman]

Sometimes people will over-rotate the sound adjustment pot and break it. Then they will add a jumper wire or resistor to the mpu board to patch the sound thru, but doing that puts the sound at a fixed level and can be quite high volume. Since that switch is labeled "Sound ON - OFF" that's more than likely what's happened. Does flipping the switch do anything to the sound, even just static?  You may want to examine the speaker, check to see if it is blown.

If you can solder you can replace that sound adjustment pot.

Good job on getting that machine to work, I was afraid you'd have multiple problems due to water damage. 

Also, what SP chip is in the machine? On the mpu board are two socketed chips that control the game and the overall machine operations. One of them is the SP chip, the other is the SS chip, both have numbers assigned by IGT. Knowing that will tell you what all options the machine has. If you don't know the SP & SS chip numbers just follow these easy instructions, then post what you find out:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=2251.msg11326#msg11326

[Talarspeed]

The chips are SP709 and SS4780

[rokgpsman]

The chips are SP709 and SS4780

Here is the link for your machine's game, you can see that the SS4780 has a 92.5% player payback percentage. If you ever wanted to you could change that SS chip to another one in this chart (below) that has the same strip configuration of "ABC", which means all 3 strips are different from each other. So any SS chip that is an "ABC" strips chip in this chart will work in your machine. That way you can increase or decrease the payback percentage if you want to. This highest percentage chip would be the SS7196 chip.

http://www.newlifegames.net/igtbible/IGT%202CM/Game%20Library%20-%20S-Plus%20-%20Triple%20Diamond%20(2%20Coin%20Multiplier).htm

You don't have to change your SS chip, a lot of times there isn't a sudden and noticeable change when you only change the percentage by a few points since it is calculated over thousands of spins.

Also in this chart if you look up near the top, just under the name of the game, you will see that this game is what IGT calls a "Type 0" game. So if you ever wanted to change your SP chip you'd want to only replace it with another Type 0 SP chip. The game type is IGT's way of categorizing their S+ games, putting the ones with similar features in the same game Type number.

[Talarspeed]

Thank you for the chip info!


I should have checked the obvious first with the sound issue- the speaker had a disconnected wire. Once I put this back together, I will test it again. Waiting on a set of deck buttons to come in now.

[rokgpsman]

Thank you for the chip info!

I should have checked the obvious first with the sound issue- the speaker had a disconnected wire. Once I put this back together, I will test it again. Waiting on a set of deck buttons to come in now.

Glad that's all it was with the speaker. They are rated to handle a high sound level so not likely to burn out, but with a mod like your machine has had added it was a possibility. The sound volume on these machines was made so it could be heard in a noisy casino, so you'll probably have plenty of sound volume now. You can look into repairing the mpu board sound pot later. If the sound is uncomfortably loud you can temporarily put some duct tape or a small piece of cardboard taped over the front sound holes on the metal in front of the speaker, from the front of the machine. That will lower the sound.

Attached below is the document for your SP chip. It contains a bunch of information about the options, features, built-in tests that your SP709 chip software has. There will probably be a lot in this document that you don't understand at this point. Don't worry about it, the understanding will come as you go along, just ask questions when you need to.

[rokgpsman]

Here is a link to a list of IGT S+ SP chips. You'll see that there are many of them. Only the ones that say they are compatible with Type 0 games would work in your machine. Also, IGT made two versions of their mpu board. They are called the "10mhz" board and the "16mhz" board. The 10mhz board can be id'd easily, it has the round blue sound adjustment pot, the 16mhz board doesn't have this. In this list of SP chips you can see that there are some SP chips designed for use in only one or the other mpu board (10mhz or 16mhz). Since your mpu board has the round blue sound knob then it is a 10mhz mpu board. So only the SP chips that are Type 0 and that are 10mhz compatible would work on your board with that Type 0 SS chip you have.

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=303.msg847#msg847

There is no need to change your SP chip to a different one, unless the new one had certain features that you wanted to have. IGT made improvements and changes to the SP chips as time went by.

Don't worry about having the older 10mhz mpu board, a lot of people like them better than the newer 16mhz version. You won't see any speed difference when playing your game no matter which mpu was in the machine.

[Talarspeed]

      Update on the speaker. In my quest to solve the lack of sound issue, I replaced the speaker. The old one looked so corroded that I wanted to rule out that as a possible source of the problem. Replacing the speaker did not solve the lack of sound issue.
 
I switched the wiring on the terminals to see if that solved it: no.
 
I am including pictures of the wiring of the added “Sound” toggle switch.  Considering removing the switch wiring and sending the wires straight to the speaker.
 
Can someone confirm that the green wire goes to the “+” terminal? 




 
I also have a new MPU board and will double check the dip switches and volume wheel (although I “thought” I did this).
 

[RB]

The green wire is negative. White +.

[rokgpsman]

Did you post a photo of your mpu board? I'd like to see the sound volume control (pot) on it. We might see something that would explain why the machine has no sound. If the speaker and its wiring is good then I'd say the mpu board could be the cause of your no-sound problem. Do you have another mpu board to try? Someone went to the trouble to add that sound on-off switch, probably because of some problem with the sound adjust pot on the mpu board. So I'd suggest looking into that closely.

The on-off sound switch that was added to the speaker wires could be bad. You can meter it to check. Or jumper across the 2 wires on the back of the switch, that will be the same as setting the switch to the ON position. If you then get sound that means that switch is bad.

Generally speaking, the metal frame of a speaker is not connected to the speaker coil wiring, so you can connect the 2 wires to the speaker either way. In some sound systems with several speakers they do need to be connected a certain way (+ and -) so that all of the speakers are in phase with each other. But on a single speaker setup in your slot I don't think the speaker wiring matters which way the wire are connected.

You can test a speaker by taking a small battery, like a flashlight battery, and connecting it to the speaker with a couple of wires for a moment, listen for a sharp static sound. And a meter can be used to check the speaker, just put the meter leads on the speaker wire terminals and look for a low resistance reading, like 8 ohms. The resistance of the speaker coil is usually written on the back of the speaker. Popular sizes are 8 and 4 ohms.

[Talarspeed]

Still no sound. I metered the speaker and got 8.5 ohms. Did not do the battery test to the speaker as suggested mostly because I couldn't immediately find wire. I did rewire the speaker bypassing the toggle switch. I also switched the wiring at the speaker for kicks.


I am attaching a picture of the volume pot as requested. Is this one of those situations where I need to do a clear, or are there other options to explore first?

[rokgpsman]

If you metered the speaker from its terminals and got about 8 ohms then the speaker is good. No need to connect a battery to it to see if it makes a popping sound. I meant that as an alternative test, in case you didn't have a meter.

The photo of your mpu board volume control pot doesn't show any damage that I can see. Does it turn smoothly and freely when you move it one way and the other?

I don't know if doing a CLEAR would help but others here may have better info about that. Have you verified that the wires from the speaker are connected at the other end?

Do you have another mpu board to try?

According to the SP709 document your mpu dipswitch #3 can affect sound. How is it set? There may be a handy sticker chart on the mpu metal tray that shows how to set the dipswitches. The SP709 document also mentions a sound test, you would access that with the white TEST button. The TEST & Setup menus have several diagnostic tests you can run, but I don't know how elaborate the sound test is. Most people verify the speaker and its wiring are ok, then try another mpu board. But if you have the CLEAR chip and want to try it I suppose you can give that a shot.

[rokgpsman]

.....I knew I was replacing the MPU board and was going to be down for some cost with the item and shipping.  The possibility of running into other issues seemed high with the current board(s) and power supply.  This is an early S+ machine and I haven’t seen this exact setup that often. WWG had the exact replacement of board(s), power, chassis and full wiring harness.
 
Regardless, the replacement came in and I installed without a hitch . . . or so it seems. I’m still having a sound issue which is on a separate thread.

Does this mean you installed a new mpu board and still have no sound? If so then I'd double-check the speaker wiring from speaker back to wherever it connects. If it goes thru the motherboard then I'd check motherboard board traces for continuity. I think motherboard connector J3 is where the speaker wiring connects, possibly at J3-29 & 30 but it is hard to read the diagram I have. Then it goes thru the motherboard traces and connects to the mpu at connector J1-11A and 11B contacts. This is all based on the diagrams I looked at, hope they match your setup.

Here is a pretty good IGT manual for troubleshooting S+ problems. It is too large to attach to a message but since you are an NLG contributing member (Thanks!) you can download it here:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=2338

The first half of the manual is for S+, the last half is for PE+. They are so similar that IGT put both in the same manual. I refer to this manual all the time, think it is pretty good but some of the large wiring diagrams are fuzzy. The wiring diagrams are at the back, starting on page 148 or near there. Maybe there is a better manual in the download area that shows the speaker wiring.

Did you confirm that the mpu dipswitch is set correctly for sound?

[Amechanic]

You can use a contact cleaner or even WD-40 to the volume pot on that MPU board to see if it will free up and turn. Sometime these volume pots need to be turned back and forth to clean the contact they have to control the volume. Have you tried unplugging the connections plugs on the mother board then plugging them back in. It could just be a bad connection at a plug stopping your sound?

[Talarspeed]

You can use a contact cleaner or even WD-40 to the volume pot on that MPU board to see if it will free up and turn. Sometime these volume pots need to be turned back and forth to clean the contact they have to control the volume. Have you tried unplugging the connections plugs on the mother board then plugging them back in. It could just be a bad connection at a plug stopping your sound?

I'm starting to agree! I also realized that I missed something on the Diagnostic Flip card. The third card mentions something about Sound Test, but I missed the option above that called Sound Effects On/Off.  I'm going back to give this a try before checking all contacts back at the board.  I also have a new wiring harness for the front door which includes the speaker wiring (although I really really don't want to run wire for everything on the front door).

[Amechanic]

It’s not that hard. You take the inside door panel off and cut about a dozen zip ties. Heck I just replaced the whole front door on a S+ I’m rebuilding.

[Talarspeed]

      Update on the sound issue:
 
Basically still no sound. I have bought a new chassis which included a new MPU and motherboard, power and complete wiring harnesses.  There is no sound in either old boards or new boards combination. I have used contact cleaner on the volume pots on both MPU boards.
 
I don’t know the full history of this machine; only that it sat in storage for several years. I imagine that it had sound hence the presence of a homemade toggle switch addition. I removed this switch thinking it might be the source of the problem.  The wires were spliced via electrical tape. I reconnected the original wiring via electrical tape. (I’m thinking of making a more secure connection).
 
I have 2 speakers. The old one is very corroded looking so I ordered a new one. The new one metered at 8.5 ohms, but now I’m thinking I want to wire it to something to verify that sound is played through it.
 
I also have a new wire harness for the door. I’m thinking of running this to rule out the possibility of faulty wires.
 
 
My chips: old board >  SS4780, SP709    ;  new board > SS4779, SP1137
 
In my research and digging in the menus, I don’t see an option for sound with these chips. But I will admit that I have struggled with diving in the menus. I have printed several guides and carefully hit the test button or “spin reel” buttons or turn jackpot reset as mentioned in the guides.
 
Can I assume that sound option is only set at the dipswitch on the MPU board? Are there options in the menus with these chips and I’m not finding them?
 
My gut is telling me that my issue lies with hardware vs. software.   Any thoughts?