How do I identify the manufacture of an Eprom?

[shortrackskater]

Just for the heck of it, I pulled out one of my GM chips from my box-O-chips and read it.
The chip says TMS JL
27C010A-15
Here's the detection reading

[rokgpsman]

TMS is the marking for Texas Instruments, often they also put a logo design that looks like the outline of the state of Texas. At least your programmer got the device pretty close (27010). Maybe that auto detect function doesn't work that well.
 
Do you have the latest version of the software for your programmer?

http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/mcumall_download.asp

[rokgpsman]

The next time you read an eprom before you save it to file change the file name from whatever.hex to whatever.bin and that should make the file the expected size. When you select Save in your programmer software a dialog box will popup, look for the dropdown menu in the dialog box that says "Save as type" and select .bin. And in the filename itself make the filename end with .bin

[rokgpsman]

mustangjeep asked earlier about the label on the top of your GM eprom 68X6048, does it have the checksum written on the label? If so you will be able to compare it after reading the chip and saving the data to a file. And if you use the file to burn another eprom you can verify the checksum is the same. Wish we knew the speed rating on the original chip, you need to use 27c512 eproms that are as fast or faster.

[qbert]

Just a comment on erasing UV chips. You could leave them in direct sunlight without the window covered for months and they will not be erased. (Believe me I have tried it and I live in sunny FL) I do not understand why everyone gets so bent on covering the window because the "chip might get accidentally erased". From my experience the only thing that will erase a UV chip is a UV eprom eraser for 20-30 minutes under direct UV light from the eraser.
For what it's worth
Rich

[shortrackskater]

 
I'll play again with this tomorrow and check on checksum. Gotta make $$$ today.

[rokgpsman]

Even though there is very little info on your 68X6048 eprom we know that it works ok in your slot machine. That means the cpu on your slot's mpu board can access it and read its contents. And the info we do have says that it is equivalent to a 27512 eprom. To me that means you should be able to install it in your eprom programmer and read its contents as a 27512, save those contents to a binary file and then program a 27c512 eprom with that binary file and have it work ok in you machine. If you have or can get the schematic drawing for your machine mpu board we can see for certain what the 68X6048 pinout is and verify that it matches with the 27512. Are there other eproms on that mpu board and are they the same 68X6048 part number?

As you've probably heard any eprom you program and install into the mpu board needs to have an access time (commonly called its speed rating) that is the same or faster than the original eprom. The speed rating is measured in nanoseconds, the lower the number the faster. So a -120 chip is faster than a -150. If we don't know the speed of that 68X6048 eprom maybe we can get an idea by other eproms on the mpu board. Or if other people have a similar mpu board maybe they know what speed their eproms are. With the age of your machine I'd think that a speed of -120 or faster would be fine but we'll see what others here say.

It will take a little time for you to get familiar with your EasyPro 80B programmer and learn the different features it has. Most hobbyists save the eprom contents as a binary (.bin) file to avoid problems with using the different hex formats. A binary file is a simple dump of the memory contents of the chip with no other formatting numbers or characters in the file. When you get your eprom eraser you can program and erase the 27c512 chip as much as you need and see how it works out.

[shortrackskater]

This is on my most recently purchased Game Maker. Most of the game chips on there have a "sticky sticker" on the glass so they're hard to peel off. Here's a screenshot of the game chip section of the MPU board.
I had to take a little break from life...I'm up in the mountains right now, sitting in a coffee shop near the old family cabin.
I'll be home tomorrow and I'll try reading my blackjack chip and saving as a bin file, and seeing if I can figure out this programmer. Of course I still can't do anything until I either get the new chip, which should arrive soon I hope.

[rokgpsman]

Enjoy your time off away from stuff, good to unwind now & then. My old monitor didn't display your coffee shop photo very well so I brightened the picture, it does look peaceful there. That isn't a bear or cougar area is it? [maybe cougars of the 2-legged variety]   


That screenshot showing the "P1" chip is a 32 pin chip, it is labeled a M628128 on the schematic portion you posted. An M628128 is a RAM chip, not an eprom, plus that 68X6048 eprom you've been working with is a 28 pin chip, so I don't think this is the right part of the schematic for your eprom.

[shortrackskater]

Mountains are nice up here! It's a nice break from Orange County. It's still got a touch of winter here with the temps in the 40's at night still. Of course, there's NO winter in Southern California, other than the mountains.
Funny, you enhanced the part that I had intentionally darkened so the trees would show better!    But the outdoor seating is nice too and thank you for "re-enhancing" that.

Ok that part I showed was just from the Bally GM manual schematic section at the end.  I'm just assuming that any area where the game eeproms go, would be the same. This shows that I really don't know what I'm doing sometimes!
Let me look again at that schematic.

[rokgpsman]

Yep, I noticed when I brightened the shadows it overly lightened the trees and they didn't look near as good. I was trying to see if there was anyone else out there in that sitting area, but it looked pretty empty. There was a sign with something about "Patio Rules" so I guess they frown upon "Streaking"  or bonfires in that area.   

[rokgpsman]

Today someone posted a picture of their Game Maker mpu board. And in the socket for the P1 chip U78 is a 27c512 eprom. So, even though your schematic shows that U78 is a 32 pin M28128 RAM chip this board has a 28 pin 27c512 eprom in the socket. That means your board may be the same way and you did post the right portion of the schematic afterall. Notice how their P1 chip is installed in the lower 28 pins of the 32 pin socket.

This is interesting and confusing, but that's the way this week has been going.

PS> the eproms on their board have speeds (access time) of -120 to -200 so now we know what speed any eproms you program need to be (-200 or faster).

[shortrackskater]

 

Well I'm completely lost on this EasyPRO 80B.  I'm simply trying to READ a working game chip. I have no clue... I press READ and I get "Device ID don't match 89 fd 00"
Don't match what? It's a working eeprom.
The blank reeproms came in today and I'd love to use it! 

[CVslots]

Is ther PE some sort of manufacturer support somewhere? Online or printed manual? Did you Google your error? If these people have sold more than 10 units, there's gotta be someon having the same issue...

[shortrackskater]

Hi Roz!
This is bizarre... It just worked! I tried something different, put the chip in and had blackjack!
I have NO idea WTF I did though... going to retrace my steps here.
I remember I auto selected the "read" chip and did the same for the "write" chip... then I did something and something else and it did something and then said "success." GAH!

[BrianT]

Speaking as someone who quite literally have read in 1,000 of chips:

If you're ONLY trying to READ the data off the chip you can use a setting that's the same size.  This is of course so the computer (game) PCBs doesn't have to care which specific manufacturer the chip is from, just the correct size.  As an example this chip socket is 28 pin meant for a 27C512 then you can set your reader to (for example)

AMD AM27C512 or Texas Instruments TMS27C512 or any "basic" 27C512 you reader supports. Some readers will tell you there's a signature mismatch and allow you to continue.

If a chip is in the same pin count and general family you're ok. Examples of this are:

both the 27C512 (64K) and the 27C256 (32K) are the same 28 pin package.

If you read the 27C256 as a 27C512 you get the normal 32K data of the 27C256 followed by an addition repeat of said 32K of data.  Basically a double sized dump of the data.  Now if you read a 27C512 as a 27C256 you'll end up with the first 32K data of the 27C512 but will be miss the second half of the data as the resulting file will only be 32K in size.

This is because of the pin assignment of chip.  A specific pin in a 27C512 is a switch to enable a higher 32K "bank" in the chip.  The 27C256 has the same pin but it's not assigned to do anything.

This is even better illustrated by the 32 pin 27C0x0 chips:

27C010 - 1 Mb
27C020 - 2 Mb
27C040 - 4 Mb
27C080 - 8 Mb

So the 27C020 has 1 pin not used by the 27C010 which enables another 1Mb of data. The 27C040 has 1 pin that's not used on the 27C020 (which in turn means 2 pins not used by the 27C010) and has two 2Mb banks of data or four 1Mb banks (2 pins = 4 combos of ON / OFF for the pins). And so on for the 27C080.

Now you need to know what size you have and match with what size you read.  All to common in the emulation community a chip has been read at the wrong size.  So you end up with data double the size or missing a lot of data.  It's pretty easy to read in chip size markings off an EPROM but bulk mass produced MASK roms don't always tell you which size they are.

The big issue is trying to read a chip that's completely different size and type. Then you run the risk of frying a chip as you can send power down the wrong leg of the chip and "POP" it's dead.

So why do programmers have all these different choices?  It is really for PROGRAMMING the chip so the chip maintains it's built in ID signature. Most PCB boards now a days don't have a means to know the difference between chip brands.  The important issue is the correct size and SPEED is also a consideration on recent PCBs.  This is the access time of the chip, on older boards it's common to have or require 150ns access rate all the way down to 250ns (much slower).  So if your board needs 150ns access and your old EPROM is 250ms when the board is ready to read info the chip isn't so the data read by the board may be corrupt.   I use Winbond W27C512 chip on my IGT PE+ machines.  They're faster then the old EPROMs and they are actually electronically erasable so I can program them and reprogram them as needed.  And there cheap enough on eBay.

I hope this info has helped in some way.

Brian

[Ron (r273)]

Here are some of my notes on identifying some EPROMS, I made-up a long time ago based on my cheaper burner.

 24C16          Mother Board       (8 Bit, 24 Pin, Accounting & configuration)   
27C64          SS Reel Chip        (8 Bit, 28 Pin)
27C256        VFD chip.             (8 Bit, 28 Pin Use 27C512 use off set 8000? Check with CJ.)
27C512-90   SS Reel Chip        (8 Bit, 28Pin, Use 27C512 use off set B= 0xC000 & size=0x2000)
27C512-90   SP Game chip      (8 Bit, 28 Pin)  “     â€œ         â€œ                “                  “
27C801-10   GME 1 & 2 chips  (8 Bit, 32 Pin, remove J3 jumper to J4 6 & 7 pins. Also
                                                     27C040, 27C080, 27C8001)
27C8001      GME 1 & 2 chips  (8 Bit, 32 Pin also 27C040, 27C080 & 27C801) *
27C1001      Version Chip        (8 Bit, 32 Pin, jurisdictional also 27C010-does not work!)*
27C2001      Mikohn Chip         (   Bit, 32 Pin, also 27C020 is original number, CHAM2+)
27C4001-90 DBV 200 chip       (8 Bit, 32 Pin) 
27C4001-90 WBA 1B chips      (8 Bit, 32 Pin)
27C4002      SBase chip           (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)* 27C4002 and 27C4096
                                             are exactly the same. Use the same settings as 27C4002.                                               
                   
27C4002      Key chip               (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)*
27C4002      Ram Clear chip    (16 Bit, 40 Pin also 27C240, & 27C4069)*
29F040B-90 Card Reader Chip (4 Bit, 32 Pin, used in Bally Mastercom 250)
PIC16C55A-047P Dem. Label   (8 Bit, 28 Pin, 4MHz 512x12, one time programming)

* They are the same chip but different chip makers ID them differently.  The speed is usually    following the ID number.  A -90 would be 90ns, -10= 100ns, -12 = 120ns, -15 = 150ns, 20=200ns and so on.  Sometimes you may see the entire number like 150 or 200.

Hope this might help someone too.

[shortrackskater]

 


 


Thank you Brian and Ron for taking the time to write both posts out. That helped me immensely to get a better grasp on this stuff!