Reel and Sticky Handle solved , now a Plug In RELAY issue 🤬

[timcdfw]

So this 1088 I have almost working perfect....the ONLY issue that remains is what I thought was a handle issue, but I think may more so involve the reels.


When pulling down on the handle it sometimes gets to the end and will not trigger the reels to spin, those times you have to pull hard and it will launch reels..sometimes no.
I removed the reels and looked at the trip lever... I think there may be an issue with the setting?  It gets to the last tooth and will not overcome it and allow the mechanism to release.....

I tried adjusting the bolt on the shaft....to move it closer and back again...no luck. It's as if the shaft isnt pushing it back far enough..?
The other issue and not sure if related...is the stop sequence of the reels.  I have seen 1&2 stop at same time and also #3 stop before #2.
I know I am close to getting this, but before I mess i things up, I need some expert advice! 
I know this may have been answered, but I've been checking the archives.....

See video here

https://youtu.be/zQmJSpOIBG4

[wolftalk]

do you have the bally 2400 manual - service instructions and parts catalog for all standard 3 reel models?  If not, you can find it at http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/

the diagram is below.
page 10-11 has all sorts of dimensions for stuff on the right side of the reel mech, but it's not practical to use most of those. 

the critical things are:

1] the peg poking out of the gear (A) slides into the fork in the handle mechanism when the reel mech is installed.  You adjust nut (E) for that.

2] you have the 1/16" free play in the shaft.  Adjust nut (H) to create the gap

3] adjust stop bracket (J) position.  It usually has the right edge flush with the frame.  Too far left and the game won't kick (handle stuck down), too far right and the game kicks early before the timer links below and on the left side of the mech are fully withdrawn.  That gives erratic spin and reels locking too early.

the kick happens when the latch pawl (O) rotates counter-clockwise and slides off the trip lever assembly (N).   A nub on the back of (O) also withdraws the sawtooth ratchet (not shown on diagram) so the trip lever can rotate back down onto the pad.

If you operate the mech outside the cabinet by pushing the c-shaped link assembly (B) into the cylinder (D), it'll make sense.

also check how the two gears (A and the one left of it) mesh together.

[timcdfw]

Thanks again Wolff,


I will remove the reels again and check all of these out.   #3 sounds like a definite culprit as its definitely doing all that.


I'll try in a bit and post results.


Appreciate the link as well!


Tim

[Amechanic]

Question for you.. Did you remove the white air cylinder on the right side of the reels assembly and cleaned it? I have had a couple machines give me a similar issue, and it was because the rubber cup seal inside had broken off and was jammed in the bottom, not allowing the piston inside to complete it stroke.

[timcdfw]

Hey! Yep that was actually what I was hoping it was. Seemed  the easiest thing to fix  After removing the cylinder it was actually pretty clear, the rubber seal was a little gummy and I removed anything that appeared to be inhibiting the travel.  It’s smooth as glass now. 


I took all Wolffs advice adjusted the plate on the bottom So it’s right at the edge, and also put the gap on the shaft at 1/16.
I am able to get many spins off now but it still occasionally sticks.   But now even when I spin the reels are stopping at random times.  Mainly now #1 and #2 are stopping almost instantly at the same time.


It’s an improvement but not quite there yet I guess 


Not sure what to try now.  I had to take a breather 😬

[wolftalk]

the stop bracket may need to be a little forward of the frame edge.  Move it a 1/16" and see what happens.  The worst case if you move it too far is the handle bottoms out before the reels kick and you either need to release the handle (search site for that) or trip the (O) pawl so you can take out the mech and nudge the bracket back a bit.

once you have the stop bracket as far forward as allows a kick right before the handle bottoms out, if the reels aren't behaving  hold onto the clock fan while pulling down the handle/kicking the reels.

if reels latch while you are holding the fan, you've got a problem on the left side of the mech.  A guy with a medalist went through a long journey in this thread:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=28167.0

[timcdfw]

Thank you wolftalk. I think I about have it licked. Last night before I went to bed it was sticking one every four spins on average.  After letting it sit overnight this morning it is flawless.  I have probably spun 30 times with no stick and perfect handle release. Who knows. 


There still may be an issue on the reel order stopping, but I’m so happy to have a handle working again. 


I will definitely check out that thread and thank you!

[wolftalk]

you're supposed to thinly grease the inside of the cylinder and the cup seal.  The cup seal is neoprene, so use a synthetic grease.  Petroleum-based (mineral oil) greases will eventually deteriorate the seal.


the cup seal isn't essential if you have to remove it ... without it the handle might slam up if you let go because the air escapes too quickly.


new seals are available for a few dollars, or search the site on how to make one from generic seals.

[timcdfw]

Well as they say two steps forward one step back...... I gently moved the machine into the gameroom thinking it was ready....got it gently into position...and as I was putting the belly glass on...noticed two wires had popped off a relay.  Unbelieveable.  Now, I have no active coin mech....


I think this is the "plug in" relay according to manual....has a plug with 14 or so pins....


I have a double yellow set of wires that seem to go on one plug...and a orange single wire.


It looks as if the whole pin came out...probably best to replace the plug. Not sure....


well just great...now I'm completely dead in the water.


Does anyone know where these wires go?  I think maybe the #10 plug is one of them...but can't tell for sure.


So depressing...I was so close.

[wolftalk]

that's the level relay.


it mainly controls the coin diverter, which sends coins to the hopper or to the overflow cashbox depending on the level of coins in the hopper.


if your hopper isn't full enough to close the level switch ... and won't be if you keep grabbing coins out of the hopper to run the game with  ... you can play the game while figuring out how to repair/replace the socket.


you may want to start a new topic on this so people with later model games that have those relays can help.   If the relay itself has a diagram on it for the pin connectivity or a part number that googles to a diagram, then where the wires go can be determined from the schematic.

if it's 14 pin, it may be a 48V 4PDT relay like this:  https://www.slotmachinerepair.com/relays


if so, I'd look for a solder tab socket rather than the screw one that page has ... something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PY14-02-Relay-Socket-for-MY4N-J-HH54P-x-2PCS-New-/154008217464


dunno if they are selling a real omron PY14-02 socket tho.

does the relay say HH54P on it?  If yes, then you need the PY14-02.

unfortunately, the broken off orange wire is power wire 70 to the relay coil and probably went opposite where the brown/blue wire 62 is (lower left corner in your pic), so you can't move wires around to unused switches on the relay.  Dunno if you can pull an unused pin receptacle out of the socket and replace a broken one ... depends how the receptacles are held in.  If it's just a tab poking out, you can depress the tab with a small screwdriver and the receptacle will slide out.

if it is a 4pdt like below image, then based on the remaining attached wires, they go like this:

12 & 14 - brown/blue
13         - orange
8           - green/yellow
2           - grey/yellow
10         - yellow


you can move the wires from 2 & 10 to 1 & 9, but that still leaves the orange wire problem.

[timcdfw]

Thanks again Wolff for this detailed reply....i definitely have the 48V relay it seems (pic attached)...I didnt see a reference to HH54P thought it may be


But your diagram helps me determine that off the two tabs that are busted (10 and 13) where I need to get these wires....


If I'm reading correctly, the orange power would go to slot #13, and the double yellow to #10.


I see now from looking at the bottom of the plug, how the connectors work...seems the two broke clean off in the middle...leaving the bottom part loose in the plug...(they have fallen out the bottom when I took that pic)


So I guess either I try a new plug and resolder all the wires....or see if I can find some new pin connectors to drop in 10 and 13 and just do those.


Right now all the coins go right back out front since the diverter isnt energized i guess.....


Thanks for the Ebay link, that does appear it would work.....I may check with KLAR on those tabs to see what he has.

Added 2 new pics....I guess there is no way to reattach these pins....with the other half that is till on the leads...sigh

Appreciate the help....I see a glimmer of hope for this old machine now))


Thanks again

[wolftalk]

the pinout is right: https://www.onlinecomponents.com/datasheet/1310p4c120a-11479267/


whether the dimensions are the same as the PY14-02 socket ... dunno.  Getting a socket from KLAR or another slot part place would remove that issue.


since all the pin receptacles are the same, see if you can remove one of the unused ones and pop it into the pin 13 spot.


the diverter is controlling where the accepted coins go in the machine - hopper or cashbox.  It shouldn't affect coins being accepted unless your game is different from the schematic I'm looking at ... what is the full model number on top of the plate below the handle (1088 or 1088-something)


the coin lockout coil behind the coin mech will cause all coins to be rejected if it's not powered.  See if the orange wire from that coil is floating around loose and needs to be connected to your other orange wire (so you'd have a double orange wire on the relay socket pin, like the double yellow wire).

[timcdfw]

Great idea on removing the unused pins, I will try that.  That may do it.


I wish I knew the model # for sure.... this machine had the plate missing when I got it and it had an 1113 hand written inspected tag inside from '77 but I dont think thats the model.....


I'm attaching a pic of the diverter area and it looks intact?


Let me work on getting those two unused pins out and resoldered and replaced....fingers crossed.

 

[wolftalk]

remove the coin mech and look behind it.  The coil lockout coil operates an armature with a tab on it.  When the coil is not powered, a spring pulls the armature toward the mech and the tab sticks into the mech coin path, causing the coin to get rejected.


see where the orange wire on that coil is going.


while you're in there, see what the wire color is on the other wire on the coin lockout coil. 


to narrow down the machine - assuming it isn't a mashup of parts from various machines- the following will help:


1] there's an M-645-xxx number on the payout counter disc.  What's the xxx


2] there's P-x84-yyy numbers stamped on the metal slotted reel index discs - maybe no dashes.  What's the x and yyy.  The x isn't that important because it's one of 4,5,6 for a 20,25 or 22 stop machine in that order.  (stop is the number of positions on the reels).  The info I have for sixteen 1088 variants says all are 22 stop, so the index discs are likely p-684-xxx


3] it's possible to remove the top of a reel strip and see the part number on the overlap underneath, but I wouldn't.  Instead, just list the symbols in order from the top all the way around.  Top of strip is where you can see the horizontal edge of the strip.

[timcdfw]

Update!


Had THE worst time trying to solder those wires....then realized my old iron wasnt cutting it.......


So new iron today and BOOM on like a charm......plugged the relay back in gently and mounted it all back in...


Immediately heard the diverter come to life...what a great sound that is ))


So....I think I'm all set!  Playing normal and i think I need a new flourescent but not a biggie.....


I"ve added a pic now that I put the belly glass back in .....


Thanks again wolff for the replies and helping this newbie hobble along...... This once dead machine..that was in someones garage is once again spinning and happy.


I bet it could tell some stories!


Appreciate all the help wolfftalk and Amechanic!


Tim

[wolftalk]

great!


the starters fail more often than the flourescent tubes, so if you have two of each, may be worth swapping pieces around to see which one is the problem.

[Amechanic]

Great to hear it’s finally working. Starters are also cheaper then buying fluorescents bulbs too. I like to buy my bulbs and starters from 1000 bulbs.com. They sell a universal bulb starter that works on all the small bulbs, instead of having to buy the F2 and F5 starters. With the price of rack going up, you might consider buying a few of each size. The bulbs only cost around $1.50 and less at 1000bulbs.com as do the starters. Buying them at a store now can cost you $7.00, $8.00 to $10 and more. Just putting my .02ć in.

[timcdfw]

Great tips on the starter, had not considered that but I will pick up an FS-5 today!


Thanks again for all your help over the last two weeks....I made a small donation too ))


Appreciate the help so much


Tim