bally electromechanical not releasing the paw to play

[jeffgeorge]

the light and coil indicate coin in to play but the paw will not release switched the coils with no luck. if you flip the leaver by hand all works well even the payout but cannot get the paw to release when coin is dropped I need some guidance please. its a bally s-note mint machine

[DavidLee]

Would it be possible to attach a photo of the part that appears to be causing the problem?

[Samman]

I'm having a somewhat similar issue with my Bally 809-ZT. With mine, every once in a while the latch release arm will not drop to allow the arm to be pulled. Must manually move arm Andy then it will activate down to release lever. Pain to have to open door every 50 pulls or so to do this. Cleaned armature switch and oiled mechanical parts as well. Any ideas?

[Amechanic]

The handle release relay has an area were the contacts lock in the up position. That small notch should have a very small amount of grease on it to allow for ease of operation. When the coil energizes it tries to pull the metal piece out from under that notch. If ifs dry it takes more effort then it it’s greased. It doesn’t take much.

[Samman]

It is a very hard area to grease. Hard to see and get at. I will try some good spray oil such as 3 and 1. WD 40 dries to quickly. I even  bought the book "Pictorial Guide to Bally slot machines " and I'm STILL not certain of the exact spot of which you speak of.

[DavidLee]

WD-40 is not recommended for electromechanical machines as it could be ignited by the electrical sparks.
Cleaning the contacts related to the latch coil might help. Also check the wire on the coin trip switch, if its bent slightly it might not be returning up all the way. As this switch is also related to the handle release.
For easier access to the latch switch, remove the reel mechanism by releasing the two latch levers and pull out the unit.

[Amechanic]

Don’t use a spray lube or oil it gets every where even on the contacts. I use a q-tip or a tooth pic to get in there. Pull the reels out for easy access. Look at the pic I attached. The area in the circle needs the grease. It’s actually the end of the drop arm, but it latches on the edge of part #12 pictured.

[Samman]

Thank you both for the replies. I will get in there with grease and a q tip. I know the part you are showing me. I have also checked the coin switch and the wire moves freely down and up. The odd thing is the mechanism works just fine for 50 or so pulls. Then, out of the blue, a coin goes in and the sound is different. I can clearly hear that the arm release was not lowered. Putting in coin2 and 3 makes no difference. The coins just drop into the hopper. Handle is not released and I have to get the key to open the door.  Then, it's simply a matter of gently moving the release lever ( number 9 in diagram) and it electronically jumps down into place. I bought the machine for an elderly family member to use, and I'm getting called to fix the handle every 15 minutes. I've cleaned all the switches and oiled and greased all of the recommended areas in the entire machine. I've read the "Owners Pictorial Guide" from end to end. The only other thing was I had my technician hook up a wire to the bell that had been cut. Now that works fine and this comes about. I really enjoy this machine when its working .  I'll re clean the whole area with contact cleaner and apply grease to that area. If that doesn't work, I'm going to get my sledgehammer.

[Amechanic]

It it possible that the coin switch contacts on the left side if the reels might need to be cleaned. If they are dirty or worn and need to be adjusted, you won’t get a good voltage pulse to trip the relay at the handle.

[Samman]

I shall utilize my Caig Pro Gold contact cleaner/treatment spray on the left side Reel switches again as well. You may be correct in that something "moves" or doesn't make contact every so often. I'm going into the machine after work today and I will report back. You guys are a great resource!

[DavidLee]

The coin switch may need the sledged hammer or tap it with the handle side of a screwdriver. (Learned this from Amechanic). The switch may have some carbon build up.


Try manually operating the coin switch and playing the machine.
Listen for the coin relay to unlatch. It needs to unlatch to make a circuit to the handle release.
If it fails to unlatch, then the problem may be between the coin switch and coin relay.


Also the contacts on the handle release might need to be moved together very slightly.


Re. Contact cleaner, it may leave a film on the contacts. Cleaning with a flexstone or very fine wet and dry sandpaper 600 to 800 grit. Should be enough. If and when I use sandpaper, I use paper that has been used previously as its less abrasive. Also denatured alcohol is good cleaning. Use it on a piece strip of card stock.
Check for fiber left behind from cleaning.

[Samman]

Well, like the Beatles said, "It's getting better all the time." I cleaned and re-greased the indicated areas mentioned above. The arm release worked perfect for about 150 pulls, and then, the demon came back. Same issue, handle won't pull after coin(s) put in. Open door and just barely touch arm release lever and it jumps down into place. Close door and I'm good for another 100 or so pulls. Still very frustrating as my elderly aunt has to call out to someone every hour or so to unlock the handle. Could it be the type of lube I'm using? I have applied a Teflon Lube, which is designed not to attract dust. 

[Amechanic]

Did you clean off the old grease from the area? If you didn’t your still working with dirt and old hardened grease.. To do the job correctly the reels need to be pulled out. Then you have clear access to that area. Easiest way to do this is with a few q-tips. Lift up the arm and hold it up. This opens up the area that needs to be cleaned and regreased. A spray lube is not going to fix this problem. With the arm up, take a w-tip or two and remove the old grease and dirt from the area. Then dab a clean q-tip in the grease and apply a little bit back on the hook part of the latch and the mating surface. You should be done now. Put the reels back in and play the game.
When lifting the arm that closes the switches, don’t force it too high or you could bend your handle contacts causing you other problems. If you don’t have grease, any local hardware store should carry it. You can get a small grease container for just a few dollars.

[DavidLee]

Right Amechanic,

Had some sticky grease holding a index arm back.
Also clean the space between the coil and the metal armature latch release.
And maybe a drop of oil on the arms pivot shaft.

[Samman]

Yes, I removed the reels and ensured all was clean prior to relubing with Teflon lube. And yes, I did lube the sections pointed out in your photos. Baffling, as it works for so many pulls and then decides to stick.

[Amechanic]

You have to remember how many time that latch has operated. There could be a small wear mark cause the latch to stick. This is where a layer of grease helps. Your Teflon lube sounds like a spray. Spray lubes don’t work for things like this. There are a couple other options that could be causing this problem. One is that your coin switch contact is dirty and worn causing a low voltage issue to the coil of the handle contacts. The other could be the beau plug that connects the reels to the cabinet is dirty or corroded with oxidation. I had a machine doing this same thing once before, but off the top of my head I don’t remember exactly what the problem was.

FYI.. Nice picture David.

[DavidLee]

Thanks Gary,

Still a possibility when the bell was wired the contacts where tweaked just a bit.
Had this happen a few time working in that area.
Try moving the top contact down very slightly.
Do this by raising the long lever before the latch is released then very very slightly press down on the top contact.

Machine OFF

[Samman]

Well, here's an update:  I have cleaned the area of the handle release mech. and applied what is said to be the best grease around--a moly grease designed for metal parts. While it initially works for about 150 pulls of the handle with no problem, eventually the issue comes up again. And please note that this does not appear to be an electrical issue with contacts not being made, as a simple "touch" of the release arm allows the arm to drop down as it should for play. I have to believe that, as someone mentioned above, wear over the years has somehow formed a notch between the metal armature and the metal back of the arm in creating a sticking situation as the grease dries out. I don't suppose new handle release arms are available or is there a way to remove this for modification. Other than this, I finally have the machine working well. Pays are fairly accurate, the bell works, I have fixed my plastic coin acceptor (had to epoxy a small plastic piece on bottom so that quarter goes to correct path and hits coin activator). I have replaced bulbs and even fixed screws that came off of inside of reel by removing reels and e-clip. I've learned a lot about this machine, more so I believe than the guy who sold it to me. lol. 

[DavidLee]

Okay,

The only change in the machine during a long play period, would be the temperature.

Try playing the machine just few minutes after start up when its cool. Take note of how long it takes to stop releasing.

The next day let the machine warm up for a hour or so before playing. Take note of how long it takes to malfunction.

Its possible the coil or another part of the machine is being effected by the heat.

Try this as way to eliminate the possibility.

[Samman]

Update:  I got some 3 in 1 oil and placed some into a syringe with a thin extended tube on the end. I gently oiled those VERY hard to reach ares on the rear of the release arm. Go Figure. So far, after 3 days of play, she's working without locking up!    We've played now for hours at each sitting, and she's working fine. Maybe I just needed the right oil. Thank you all for your help and wisdom. I hope it lasts for a while.