only pays on cherries?

[ldjamin]

[font=]Hi folks, I'm new to the forum and hopefully posting correctly?? [/font]

[font=]I have a Bally's nickel (988), circa 1975? It's a four reel, 3-coin, progressive that isn't working properly. It currently ONLY pays on cherries. (1-coin in pays 2 coins, 2-coins in pays five coins & 3-coins in pays 10 coins). It won't pay anything on any other symbols?? Thoughts?[/font][font=&amp][/font]

[font=&amp][font=] thanks in advance, lance[/font][/font][/color]

[font=&amp][/font]

[wolftalk]

is 988 the full model number on the plate below the handle?

got a picture of the payout for the game, and do you have any of the paperwork? 

most of the 988 models used the same reel wiper wiring - drawing w-1041-[2341-2344].  I should have that and some schems if you don't have anything.



does it matter which line your three cherries pay is on, or does it pay correctly on all lines?


the games do look like they have orange/plum/bell/etc relays that need to power for payout to happen.  e.g. if you get three oranges, the orange relay should power.


if those relays aren't powering, you could have dirty rivets on the reel wiper boards,  misaligned wipers,  or something is wrong with the common orange wire going to all those coils. 

[ldjamin]

Hi Wolftalk, thank-you for the response.


The number on the plate is: 988-2-8


Picture of payout attached.


I do have some generic schematics, but nothing specific for this machine. I've had a hard time finding anything associated with "988". Is there some other nomenclature for this machine? Anything you have that would help would be much appreciated!


It consistently pays out on 1 or 2 cherries regardless of which of the 3-paylines. However, it's inconstant paying on 3-cherries regardless of which payline. None of the other symbols pay at all.


The wipers appear to be properly aligned?


Thanks again,


Best regards, Lance

[wolftalk]

I have a schem for the 988-2.    Not sure what 988-2-8 would mean, tho the el capitan belly glass wouldn't be the one that came with a 988-2 (that was a generic bally deluxe progressive). 


looks like I have the reel wiper diagram, payout counter diagram and info on the reel tapes and index discs.  I'll try and get it cleaned up and posted onto http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ in the next couple of days.


if you have flaky three cherry payout, that hints your problem is likely the reel 3 wipers/contact plate since those need to be right for all other pays. 


You can loosen the screws holding the wipers onto the arm and shift the wipers around to get the contacts centered as best you can on the rivets.  Also make sure the rivets are clean.


'course, you need to be positioning the contacts on the right rivets for the symbol displayed on the reels.  The easiest thing is to:
- push the wipers back so the index arm is out of the slots
- spin the reel until the index arm is at the deepest slot
- verify the symbols are orange-plum-orange on top-center-bottom lines of reel 3 (I think)
- the wiper contacts should be on the leftmost column of rivets on the contact plate looking at the wiring side.  The rightmost rivets looking at the rivet side.


it's easy to see when the contacts are centered on the top rivets...the smaller rivets at the bottom are harder to see.  The goal is to not be bridging rivets with the wiper contacts and be on the right rivets.


once you have the paperwork, you'll be able to verify with an ohmeter/continuity tester that you have a closed circuit path thru the reels when you have a winner.


do you know where the plum, orange, bell relays are?

[DavidLee]

Simple test for reel / wiper arm alignment. Set up a payout other than cherries.
Place your hands on the reels, then rock them up and down, it doesn’t take much movement.
You may get a response when doing so.
Also you can do one or two at a time. Usually just one wiper arm is out of adjustment.
Might check the wiper contacts for grease / grime and bent wiper blades.
Grime and dirty contacts will prevent the wiper arm from moving into a slot.

[ldjamin]

Thanks for the reply guys!


~Wolftalk, there are actually two numbers, one is "988-2", the other number is "988-2-8". Sorry for the confusion. I think the machine originally came from the El Capitan casino in Reno?


I'll continue to check the website- very much appreciate the documentation and looking forward finally having some schematics that match the machine! lol


I do not know where the plum/orange/bell relays are. Please advise...


thanks again for the help.


BTW, I have another slot machine that I'm having a difficult time identifying the manufacturer. Any suggestions as to where to post the pics etc. on nlg?


Lance

[Lee Pfeifer]

Start cleaning

[wolftalk]

turns out my schem was for the 988-7 ... but it also says 988-2 on it.


the only difference in my docs is the belly glass, but there may have been other changes.  If your game has something different, it should be minor and not related to the reels or payout.


look in http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/988-7/


there's also a 988-13 schematic if you want to see another one.  I don't have info on that game so don't know if it used the same reel wipers, index discs and payout counter.  It could be the only difference is replacing the 7's with lions heads and someone had to redraw the schem for that :-)


not sure where those relays are either ... probably in the top compartment if the wiring for them is on the reel plugs ... gotta run so will look laterif you need more info.


I'd post the pics of your unknown game in a new topic.  Besides the front of the game, pics of the inside helps.

[ldjamin]

Wolftalk, I downloaded the files for the 988-7. Thanks again for pointing me that direction. Hopefully I'll get some time this weekend to check it out?


Also appreciate your time in responding! Have a good one...……...


regards, lance

[ldjamin]

Problem solved!! Very much appreciate the responses from everyone.


~Wolftalk, it was the drawing of the wiper reel positions you pointed me to that helped me solve it. The wiper fingers were an entire row off for the third wheel. No idea how that happened? I suspect it was like that when I picked it up? I've adjusted it accordingly and it now pays on everything as it should!


Only a few minor issues remaining to research on the site;
1) lights don't come on when the second coin is dropped. But all come on when the third coin is in.
2) I rigged a small jackpot checking the reels, and it paid a few nickels over.


THANKS again!!


Lance

[wolftalk]

great!

1) lights don't come on when the second coin is dropped. But all come on when the third coin is in.
2) I rigged a small jackpot checking the reels, and it paid a few nickels over.

which lights don't come on with the second coin?  Some of the lamps are controlled by the line unit disc. 


I added the w-1112-4 drawing to the web site.  It's the diagram for the line unit. 


if the problem is lighting the second line on the reel glass, take a look at the wipers that are connecting wire 30 to wires 85-4 and 75-4.  Especially make sure the wipers/rivet labelled 85-4 are clean and making good contact.


for jackpot pay, how big a pay was it? 


if the pay was using the outboard wipers on the payout disc, those should be adjusted so the wiper contacts step off the end of the copper trace a few credits (like 10) before the payout amount.  The CO trace is used to pay the exact amount since the outboard wipers are too sloppy and move too small a distance to get a repeatable payout.

[ldjamin]

Wolftalk, UGG.. apparently it's more then just the 2nd coin-in lights.  They don't come on next to the top reel payline, nor above next to the 2nd coin-in "super" jackpot indicator. Coincidentally, the machine doesn't pay for a winning combination on the top (2nd coin) row either. I didn't realize this before as I only checked the pays on the center (1st coin-in). 


The overpay was for a both a 20 & 40 coin jackpot.


Received the contact plate dwg- appreciate it.


BTW, I posted some pics of my other machine under a new topic and it was correctly identified as a "Nevada Machines" game. This website is awesome!


thanks again, Lance

[DavidLee]

The machine odds unit is not sensing the second coin.
Coin two should advance the odds unit which in turn operates the lights.
An open circuit on the common yellow would prevent both 6 volt lights and 50 volt switches from operating.
Since the other pay lines work, take a good look at all contacts and connections regarding the second coin circuit
on the odds step up unit.

[wolftalk]

on the 988 the odds unit is called the line unit.


the paths thru the line unit for lamps and payout are independent and payout doesn't connect to wire 30, so the likely thing is the line unit is not stepping correctly or the rivet/wiper connections at the first step are coincidentally bad for both the lamps and the payout.


I interpreted your post as saying:
- first coin is fine
- second coin no lamps (and now no payout)
- third coin lamps for both second and third coin came on


if that's true, clean the rivets on the line unit and manually reset/step the unit - power off is ok - to make sure it's operating properly (should whizz back to reset stop without sticking and when stepping up wipers are centering on rivets correctly with reasonable pressure).


if the line unit is not stepping at all or stepping intermittently so the game accepts multiple coins until it registers 3, then check switches on the line unit step up relay ("line S.U. relay" at schem D4, "LSUR" below) and the relay operation.  What's supposed to happen is:


1] deposit first coin and handle release relay powers
2] deposit second coin and LSUR powers and holds itself powered (briefly)
3] a now-closed LSUR switch powers the line unit step-up coil, and when the coil plunger pulls all the way in, the LSUR unpowers
4] the line unit step-up coil loses power and as the plunger leaves the coil, the wipers are pulled around one rivet position which turns on appropriate lights and enables the line for payout.


steps 2-4 repeat for the third coin after which the line unit "open on second step" switch is open so the coin lockout relay should not power and deposited coins get rejected.


make sure the line unit step-up coil is NOT getting held powered because a flaky end-of-stroke switch is not unpowering the LSUR.  Solenoid coils are high power, and holding one on will result in smoke and possibly a burnt up coil.

[ldjamin]

Hey Wolftalk.


Yes, you interpreted my post correctly.


I haven't had an opportunity to check the machine yet based upon your response, but as always very much appreciate your time and your feedback!!


regards, lance

[ldjamin]

Appears that simply cleaning the line-unit is what was needed as everything is working now. Lights come on and 2nd coin-in payline is working too.


I also took the opportunity to check the majority of the pays on each payline. Although not a huge deal, 4-plums (40 coin payout) overpay between 4 & 6 coins on each payline. All the other pays upto 200 coins are correct. (I actually didn't check the "jackpot" 1000 & 4000 coin payout).


Time to research the site...…..


Thanks again for everything!


lance

[wolftalk]

4-plums (40 coin payout) overpay between 4 & 6 coins on each payline. All the other pays upto 200 coins are correct.

you have cherry wins on other paylines?  The game pays all wins.  If you have 4 plums but no wins on other paylines, then check your reel wipers to make sure you aren't bridging rivets.


also check the payout wiper finger opposite the main wiper span (the one at the top of the payout counter when reset) to make sure it's not tweaked and hitting the edge of the 42 trace when it should be stepped off it.