Bally 873 coin mech / fuse issue

[Phan000]

Hello,


My “new” 873 has been working perfectly for the 2 weeks I’ve had it.


Yesterday I tried to put a coin  and it was jammed.  Opened the coin mech to free up the jam
and a fuse blew.


Just replaced the fuse.  Machine registers coins, but won’t allow lever to
Engage.


Will accept more than 5 coins, but on #6, the fuse blows.


Any suggestions?  Love this machine,  got to get it working again!

[Phan000]

Update,  now it is just rejecting all coins. 




The fuse blew if I triggered the copper lever in the photo.  It now does nothing but fuse stays good

[rdaniel]

If you depressed the switch wire and the fuse blew immediately, there could be a short between the switch and the chassis. or the switch could be bad.
 

[DavidLee]

Possibility when the coin mechanism was removed the coin lock out coil/wiring got out of place. Causing a short.


Remove the coin mechanism them manually operate the coin switch by depressing the coin sensor wire.


Take note of any irregular sparks, smoke or buzzing.


Also some machines have a bundle of wires running over, under or behind the coin mechanism.
Its possible there is a problem in this area.

[size=78%] [/size]

[Phan000]

Thanks for the input.


The switch definitely blows the middle fuse right away.  I ordered a new one to be safe,  though the switch itself seems to test out.


I think this problem might be self-inflicted:


When I first got the machine,  the overflow diverter was buzzing.  I snipped the orange wire, and wedged the diverted open.  All fixed...but did I make things worse?


Is the solenoid in the photo just for the diverter, or also for
The coin mechanism?


Should I replace that solenoid?  What number is it?


Any ideas how I can chase this short?

[/size][size=78%]Thanks again!   [/size]

[DavidLee]

If the machine was working fine, there’s probably no reason to replace anything at this time.
Tape the loose end of the cut orange wire. If it touches any metal it will blow a fuse.

[Phan000]

I isolated the problem to the reels.  Center Fuse is good with hopper, but blew with reels when hitting coin switch.[/size]I put an 8v fuse in center & it stays good.When I hit the coin switch, the relay up top engages, but then just a hum.  Sounds like it is coming from the coin relay.  No insert coin lights.There is a fair amount of grease in the area.  Former owner probably greased before selling as it had been sitting a long time.Any thoughts on my next step?

[wolftalk]

pedantically, the coils with plungers going into them are called "solenoids" :-)  They should never stay powered for long.


I assume that's the line unit.


when you hit the coin switch, the line unit reset coil and the line unit reset relay get powered.  They both stay powered until the line unit resets, then an "open at zero" switch on the side of the line unit opens and removes the power.


if your line unit is gunked up, it won't reset all the way, the zero switch won't open and the reset coil will turn into a small version of a toaster.  It will get red hot, may burn up or partially short.  With luck, the fuse blows before any real damage is done.


in any case, clean the line unit.  The most common problem is someone put grease or something has turned tacky on the rivets on the contact plate.  Clean off the contact plate with alcohol and a non-scratching scrub pad, then manually step up/reset the unit and verify the wipers whizz back to reset when you push in the reset solenoid plunger.  Check reset from the first step and the top step.


DO NOT just add tension to the center coil spring.  If you add too much tension, the unit won't step up all the way.  Normally the spring has 1-3/4 to 2 turns of tension.


you can lube the the contact plate rivets with mineral oil.  That will help the wipers spin easily.   A contact cleaner/lube (usually mineral oil in those), or something like super-lube.  If using super-lube - or even CV joint grease - you want a thin smear that is almost invisible.  Lay on a grease too thick and you'll make wiper reset drag and you'll be back to blowing fuses. 


verify the open at zero switch works.   See "open at zero" entry in the bingo glossary at http://bingo.cdyn.com/machines/glossary.html#openatzero/resetswitch if you aren't sure what the switch is.


if someone greased/oiled/WD-40'd the white plastic ratchet and it's sticky, you have a bit more work to do to remove the ratchet and clean it off...and clean out the hole through the frame the ratchet spins in.  No lube is required on a plastic->metal interface.


if you do remove the wipers to clean the ratchet or get to the rivets more easily, note the wipers can go onto the ratchet shaft two ways.  Almost always only one is right, so make sure the unit is fully reset and note the wiper position.   Ideally, post a picture of the wiper side at reset.  It is probably this:


http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/873-ZZM/w-1141%20-%20line%20unit.png


oh yeah, if you do remove the wipers.  Push in the reset solenoid plunger.  The pawls should lift off and stay clear of the ratchet teeth.  Grab the shaft and turn it.  Let go to see if the ratchet is spinning freely.    When doing this and/or putting the wipers back on, make sure the ratchet does not move away from the unit frame. 


if the ratchet slides out too far, the stop barb will disengage and the center spring tension will spin the ratchet, possibly bending the open-at-zero switch blade or screwing up the center spring tension.


if that happens, easiest to just remove the center spring, reposition the ratchet so the stop barb is against the frame tab, verify open at zero switch is open correctly, and replace the center spring with 1.75 turns of tension.  Test and go to 2 turns if needed.


to remove the ratchet, take off the wipers, the center spring and two pawl springs, and if there are pin switches, remove a screw from the switch stack and slightly loosen the other.  Pivot the stack up far enough and you can pull the ratchet out.


you don't need to remove the coils, linkage arms or pawls unless the pivot points on the pawls are sticky.

[Phan000]

Thank you for the extensive information.  I will look at the machine again master today.


To clarify, as I have seen different information:


Should the fuses be 5,5,8 from left to right?

[wolftalk]

what is the full number on the plate below the handle?


most/all of the 873's are probably the same, but worth double checking.    I checked 7 schems for different models and they are all as below:


5A - orange and orange/red wire - 50V circuit
10A - blue and blue/red wire - 6V circuit
3A - power cord and white/blue wire - 120V circuit


on 120V machines, the hot wire in the power cord is connected to the fuse, where hot is the wire connected to the smaller prong on the plug.  If your power cord has colored wires, the black one is hot.

[DavidLee]

Thoroughly  inspection of all wires switches and solder joints, this might reveal a cause for the short.
A good bright light and magnifying glasses/headgear work best.


Check the wires close to the top hinge. On occasions they wear on the door frame, which can cause a short.

[Phan000]

So the machine is playing again.


First coin pays,  won’t accept others.


After playing one spin, coin accepted light stays on, and will crank but not pay.


All 5 way lights stay on.

[wolftalk]

1] what did you do?


2] what is the full model number on the plate below the handle


3] your symptoms still say the line unit is not resetting

[Phan000]

I apologize for not being more explicit.


1.  I cleaned the contacts with alcohol on where I have marked the photos with arrows.
I also manually cranked the reels one time on the right side of the reel mechanism.


2.  Numbers on the plate are. 873-42J.  FL-10730


3. It is probably not resetting still.  I’m glad that it is partially functional, and am making progress,  but don’t want to cause damage taking too many parts apart.  It was working perfectly a 2 weeks ago. 

[Amechanic]

I’m sure you have a bunch more cleaning to do. There are the beau plugs that connect the reels assembly to the cabinet. Then you have the beau plug on the hopper, and you have the assembly in the top box. You have a beau plug on the top box, and a stepper unit. Try to advance the stepper unit by hand. See if it advances the 5 clicks, then resets. You will also have contacts on the stepper unit.

[DavidLee]

The coin relay switches might of got out of adjustment when you cleaned.
Insert coin, coin accepted is partially controlled by this switch.



This switch stack is a little temperamental.
If one contact blade is to far one way, it won’t make continuity the other direction.


     So whatever corrected the short?

[wolftalk]

if your line unit is not reliably resetting and/or the zero switch is not opening at reset, the best you can hope for is blowing a fuse.  The worst is a fire.  The middle ground is you burn up the line unit reset solenoid coil.


here's youtube video kinda showing cleaning a stepper and what happens if you don't hold the ratchet when pushing the wipers back on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oz-fhVPyaA&t=212s


this video shows a bunch of types of stepper units that aren't relevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOCIJWI8Hfo
but around 2:00 he gets to the type of unit that is the line unit, and shows a cruddy/gummy unit.  Around 3:00 he shows a bally unit that should be like yours and how it should work.  Note how the ratchet/wipers whizz back to the reset position without slowing or stalling.


if nothing else, make sure the line unit ratchet whizzes back to reset and the switch(es) the pin(s) poking out of the ratchet move do something reasonable.

[Phan000]

Those videos and suggestions help a lot.  Thank you.




It appears that the solenoid in the line unit is burned up.


Is there a way to verify?


Is this a symptom, or the cause of the issues?

[wolftalk]

it's a symptom.


if the ratchet doesn't reset all the way, the white nylon pin sticking out of the white ratchet won't open a switch contact.  That will keep the reset coil powered and it will burn up.


even though the paper wrapper charred, the coil may be ok.    Your pics are too low in resolution to see wire colors, but one of the wires on the reset coil should loop over to a switch poking out over the ratchet.  If you make sure the unit is reset and the ratchet pin is opening that switch, you can stick an ohmeter on the two coil terminals and measure the resistance.


the reset coil is usually a C-28-1100, and it should be around 15 ohms.  If it's a lot less, then it'll pull more current and maybe blow the fuse.  If it's infinite, then the coil wire burnt/broke.


the coil is common in pinball machines, so should be easy to find at places like marcospecialties.com for $13.  I probably have used good ones laying around. 


your full model number is probably 873-4ZJ ... a version made for circus circus casino.  Uses same stuff (reel tapes. wiper board wiring, slotted metal index discs) as a 873-ZC except the payout disc is different.  The -ZC payout unit diagram is w-923-286 and the -4ZJ diagram is w-923-488.  The effect is probably a different pay table.


the schematic for the -ZC is likely almost the same as your 4ZJ.  Differences usually are jackpot bells, lights or casino-specific alarms or meters.  In this case tho, the payout unit block on the schem would be different.


you can find the paperwork for the -ZC on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/.  I don't have the 488 diagram.

[Phan000]

The white cog with the spring  was a bit stuck as was the contact plate.  I cleaned both, and it is moving pretty freely now.  When I manually release, it springs quickly back to zero.


The solenoid read infinite, so I guess it is shot and I’ll get another.


Hopefully that was the main issue.


I am floored with how intricate these machines are & the hand drawn schematics are like artwork.


Very cool!