Bally Metalist Not making all payouts

[ljwayne5451]

Good day, I have rebuilt a Bally Metalist model 1081-6H and I am at my wits end trying to figure out why some payouts do not work at all or others as they should.
1 Cherry will not payout, 2 cherries will not payout in any of the 3 games. 3 cherries pays correctly on each game and 6 cherries pays 3x as it should if paying 3 coins. 3 Golds will pay out correctly but getting golds across the 3 games only pays as one (50 and not 150 as it should pay) So many that should pay 3x only pay for 1x.

I have gone over it and over it and have not got a clue. Has anyone with one of these or similar slot had a problem like this. Any help would be appreciated.
What should I be looking for. Of course I have no schematics for this slot.


thanks
Larry

[slcjeeper]

When you say you have rebuilt the machine, what have you done? Was it a complete tear it down? At this point it could be a number of things, but I'll start with this: Have you adjusted the reel wipers? Line up a know non-paying win (single or double cherry for instance) After the clock stops and there is no pay, lightly rotate each reel to see if anything happens. Have you verified the payout counter is adjusted properly and running smooth? Same for the step-up unit?

[ljwayne5451]

Hi, The reel mech was a complete tear down. All electrics were removed, mechanics disassembled. All the wipers were numbered 1-5 and parts were placed in the order removed. Cleaned and reassembled. Before putting the electrics back on, I tested the reel mech and all was working as it should. I do not know if the slot was working before I tore it down because it just would not cycle at all.
All the wipers were lined up to there proper positions as they were before the tear down. From the front of the slot on the wiper boards the wiper arms are as follows:

7 = row 3 - Bar = row 4 - Gold = row 5 - Melon = row 6 - Bell = row 7 - Plum = row 8 - Orange = row 9 - Cherry = row 10

The payoffs that  do work for a single game 1,2,3 - 2,3,4 - 3,4,5 except for single and double cherrys. The reels are locked in and lining up on the wiper contacts. Three cherries in each game pays and if you set all 5 reels to cherries it pays for a 3 games or 30 coins. The coin unit is stepping up as it should.

3 Gold on 1,2,3 - 2,3,4 - 3,4,5 pays only 50 instead of 150 but Gold works on 1,2,3 - 2,3,4 - 3,4,5 individually as they should. After additional testing the same is true on other 5 reel payouts, you only get paid as if you used only one coin. The hopper works fine and pays the correct amount on the combinations that are working as they should.

I hope this helps you understand where I am at the moment. I have gone through the wiring and plugs several times and cannot find any problems

[slcjeeper]

Bear with me if you have already done so but I always start with the basics. Have you cleaned both ends of the Beau plugs really well and insured that all the pins stay in place and that there are no broken or cold solder joints? It's common to find a crack under the insulating tube at the pin solder joint. To clean the inside of the female side of the Beau plug, i run a diamond file  through once or twice on both the top and bottom edge of each slot. For the male pins I go over them with a stainless steel Dremel wire brush wheel until the tarnish is gone. If you set up a non paying win and wiggle the reel or hopper unit and it wants to pay, then I would look closer at the Beau plugs. Have you verified all wires soldered to the bottom row of the payout unit? Also insure the wiper fingers are pressing evenly. Do the lights reflect the additional played coins? Here's a link to a terminal file I use only on the Beau plugs. Never on any other contacts in the machine. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0062Y599K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[ljwayne5451]

Good morning, I have cleaned the pins but have not run anything through the female plugs. I ordered the one you suggested to clean them, the cabinet had quite a bit of corrosion inside and maybe the plugs are not getting cleaned enough with the contact cleaner I used. I do have one questionable connection on the female plug on the right side (Reel Mech handle side) top pin 4 from the right. It goes to the coin unit but I jumpered it to be sure I had a connection with no change in results. Not all connections have the insulating tubes but i did not pull them up to check so I will do so. All wires on the payout board look good. By the way I have another coin hopper that I have not worked on and it also will not payout on the same combinations. The coin unit is stepping correctly and all wires and wipers are working and the lights reflect 3 coins played. Let me go through the process of cleaning the plugs as you suggested hopefully tomorrow. Thank you for your help. I will get back to you after I have followed through with your instructions.

Larry

[ljwayne5451]

I have traced the wires from the payout wheel to a diode board on the reel mech. They come in the bottom plug of the larger diode board. I have tested all the diodes on both boards and they all test good using a diode tester. Can anyone tell me the function of these boards and how they are powered? I am still waiting for the cleaning tool to clean the beau plugs. Attached are photos of the diode boards. The marking on the larger board are just from a pencil I used to show the traces on the other side for those diodes.

[mark the spark]

i think the diodes are used for payouts
i think but not certain they use negative part of the cycle for some pays
will look for the info i read that on

[ljwayne5451]

hi, any help with this will be greatly appreciated. This has been a tough one. It sure would be nice if I could find more information on the 1081-6H Mentalist. thank you

[DavidLee]

Check the wiper board circuit for continuity on the payouts in question.
Payouts / wiper boards must have continuity before the machine will start the payout cycle.
If everything checks out okay, then tracing from the wiper board through the plugs to the step up unit
maybe necessary.

[wolftalk]

1081-6H - bally "fruit with tower".


uses the same reel tapes, slotted index discs, reel wipers/contact plates, schematic, payout counter as the 1081-1H.


you can find all that documentation on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1081-1


the diodes are used to reduce the wiring needed to make a circuit thru the reel contact plates.  Because of the diodes, you can't use continuity or measure ohms thru the entire circuit.  It's easier to use the schematic and reel wiper diagrams to verify sections of the circuit on either sides of the diodes, and check the diodes like you did. 


you can probably put the meter probes far away in the circuit on both sides of a diode and use the diode test mode like continuity, but I'd verify your meter is ok with the extra effective wire length and small contact resistances you'd be adding in.
 
for a maybe not helpful explanation, see the bally writeup for the more complex 929 machine that had dual wipers on each reel:


http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/929/bally_929_tech_info.pdf

if the docs don't help ya, yell and can try and be more specific for any particular payout scenario you'd like to debug.

[ljwayne5451]

Good morning, Wolftalk, I appreciate the information you sent. I set the slot aside while I worked on a Bally 809. Now that it is finished I am setting the 1081-6H Bally back on the table to continue to work on.

I really did not think about the diodes getting in the way of continuity testing so I am happy you mentioned that. You are right it would not work. I will try to test the circuits as you suggested first and try to see if I can use the diode testing like continuity as well. Some diodes are reversed from others on the boards so, I will need to take that into account. I am using a Fluke model 117 for my testing. I have downloaded the specs from the link you sent.

Thanks for the help!!! I will update as I get back into it.

[ljwayne5451]

Well, after downloading the schematic I found a couple wires that had been damaged and repaired the connections. I went through all the coils a couple weeks ago and I did find a bad coil as well. Since I did not know where else I could go for a coil, I bought one off Ebay. After fixing the bad connections and replacing the coil it is finally up and running. One Thing I would like to ask about, the low and high payout relays in the top of the game had 10uf 200v caps across the coils but both were disconnected on one side. Not sure if they were cut loose or just broke off. I do not see these in the drawings. Game is working without them connected right now. What do you think??

Thank you very much for your help.

[wolftalk]

those coils are running on DC, so the caps will act like little batteries and voltage spike absorbers.


the circuit has payout counter step-up arm switches in the high/low relay circuits that will keep those relays powered while the payout counter is stepping.  I assume it has something to do with the trace pattern on the payout counter disc since the circuit thru those and the reel wipers is what powered the high/low relays to begin with.


if the payout counter step-up arm switch wasn't working right for some reason, I guess the caps would help the high/low payout relays stay powered if there's brief interruptions due to the wipers/traces.


in addition, if the step-up arm switches were no good, the voltage spike that happens when the magnetic field in the relay coil collapses could cause some arcing/burning/pitting of the end of the copper trace on the payout counter disc.  The cap would absorb that voltage spike.  The path thru the step-up arm switch when working would take care of that problem, so the cap shouldn't be necessary.


got any burning on the traces?


I'd remove the caps.

[ljwayne5451]

No burns...everything looks good. I have a brand new payout board if I ever need one.  Right now everything seems to be working. Just a few tweaks to finish up

I did not put the new caps on.