BALLY 804 - SCHEMATIC NEEDED

[GOS]

I am posting this request for Rodger K - he has an 804 and is in desperate need of a schematic. 

[wolftalk]

I have info for the 804-H


look in http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/


I should have reel tape and slotted reel index disc info for the -H as well which I'll put on the above in the next couple days.


the -G thru -L and -N used the same contact plate wiring and payout counter disc.  Other versions used different reel wiper wiring and payout disc, but almost all used the same tapes, so I guess the big difference is payout schedule and the usual minor stuff like light towers, jackpot bell, etc.


my original is a marked up schem for a game with "token drop" added.  I assume that's a conversion to a machine that dispensed the souvenir tokens on certain wins.  I erased all the markup from the schem on the web site....I think.

[Jackpot]

I am posting this request for Rodger K - he has an 804 and is in desperate need of a schematic.

I need a schematic of the feature apple circuit, there is a step-up unit in the top box that steps up, to count the 10 games won off as they are played, this unit is not working, so I need to explore this circuit to find the problem. Anyone have, any paper on how this game count off circuit during the feature play?Thank You All!Rodger Knutson

[wolftalk]

on the schematic I posted ... specifically http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/804-H/w-1046-813%20-%20804-H.png ... you want the circuit powering the super J.P. step-up coil.


there's a "reel mech make before break" (MBB) switch(es) that is creating the pulse to step up the unit.  If those switches aren't adjusted so they are both briefly closed at the same time, no step-up pulse will be created.


grab the 2200 manual from  http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/bally_manuals/ for parts diagram info on the 804.  However, I don't see an extra switch in the diagrams so the MBB may be on one of the usual switch stacks like the B or C switches.  Look for gray/black wire 98-1.



if you can email to slotpics@cdyn.com highest possible resolution pictures of the left and right sides of the reel mech and the both sides of the super jackpot unit,  I'd appreciate it so I how documentation on how it works.  Pic of the wiper side of the super jackpot unit at reset including edge wires will help me find a diagram for the unit if I have one, tho I guess with one wiper it's pretty obvious how it works from the schem.

[wolftalk]

the schematic has a symbol I've never seen before, and rodger emailed me some pics, so in a few posts lets look at the circuit and suggest debug steps.


first up is a simplified schematic. 


the problem is the super jackpoint unit is not stepping up.  All the switches in the circuit to the step-up coil are closed except a part of the odd "make before break" symbol, so that's probably the first thing to consider.


in the next few posts, assume the reel mech A and C switches are good.  If the handle releases when a coin is dropped in, they are good.

[wolftalk]

there's one debug step that can be taken first. 


if the regular jackpot relay is powered AND the super jackpot unit is NOT reset, then playing a game cycle will reset the super jackpot unit.  If it does, the the MBB switch is working and the problem with step-up is lower down on the schem.


you'd need to grab the entire schematic to see how to power the regular JP relay, but one way is to set up a bar-bar-bar winner and the relay will power.  Another option is just hold the relay armature plate down on the coil top with your finger.


in the pic below is the super jackpot stepper unit with the "SJP open at 0" switch circled.  In the pic, the switch is held open by the peg in the ratchet, so the unit should be reset in the picture.  You'd manually step the unit at least once so the switch is closed.

[wolftalk]

if the SJP reset coil in the previous post powered and reset the unit but the unit is not stepping up, then:


1] both the regular JP relay switches don't work (not likely)
2] the "SJP unit" switch is open.
3] a plug connection is bad
4] the step-up coil is bad


the "SJP unit" switch is an open-at-top switch (blue circle on pic).  A peg on the ratchet (blue arrow on pic) pushes the switch stack at the last step of the unit - in this case the 10th step - and opens the switch.  That prevents the coil from powering when the unit shouldn't step up further.

you can just inspect the switch, or you can jumper wire 30 to wire 98-1 on the regular jackpot relay and if the step-up coil powers, everything from wire 98-1 down to the coil is good.

you can also use a voltmeter between wire 30 and 98-1 because the MBB is open and no current is flowing.  If you see 50V, the coil and switches are probably fine.  If you don't see 50V, something is definitely wrong.

[wolftalk]

if the unit failed the reset test or passed the jumper or voltmeter check, that leaves the MBB switch pictured below.


- wire 80-1 is connected to the switch blade the green arrow points to
- wire 98-1 is connected to the short switch blade the red arrow points to
- nothing is connected to the switch blade the purple arrow points to!


the greased bar with the brown roller peg slides left as the handle is pulled and the sequence is:


1] when the game is sitting at game over wire 80-1 is connected to the nothing blade.
2] as the bar slides, the nothing blade contact touches the short blade contact, so wire 80-1 is connected (maked) to wire 98-1.  The SJP step-up coil powers.
3] bar keeps sliding and wire 80-1 stops touching the nothing blade.  80-1 is disconnected (breaked) from 98-1.  The SJP step-up coil loses power and steps the unit.


hence the switch name ... make-before-break.  The usual problem with an MBB switch is the break happens before the make and the circuit doesn't work.

[wolftalk]

maybe one reason this schematic symbol is rare is the circuit has an inherent flaw.


if you are annoyed with the machine owner and you pull the handle really slowly until you hear the SJP step-up coil power, then hold the handle in that position, you can probably burn up the coil.


now to wait and see what rodger finds is the problem.  Probably nothing related to this string of posts :-)

[Jackpot]

Wolftalk;
This is great stuff!, Really I find this interesting as this is the first Bally Big Apple I have even seen in the shop, and everything is clean and new in it, this machine has the Gamblers General Store in Las Vegas on the side, so it came from there at one time. I have helped them in the past with some warranty repairs, so I wrote them about paper on this machine. I got a note back saying they no longer sell slot machines, too bad. Your work here on the description of this circuit and the information you have provided is amazing. I don't know just how many Big Apples are out there but this is the first I have seen up close. I was very surprised by the lack of information on this machine, even Barry Fox didn't have much knowledge of this Big Apple feature circuit (but he knew where to send me for answers so: God Bless you Barry!) So, now we all have it saved here for tomorrow; so thank you very much for this and you incite and knowledge!
     I just can't wait to get at this machine and see just why this unit has stopped stepping down the free games; if it was on the casino floor like this it would have been outside at the dumpster by now as; stuck like this is with no game countdown, they would have to have a hopper fill every two minutes or less all night long.....LOL     

I'll be back with the cure for this sick Apple A.S.A.P.......
Jackpot

[Jackpot]

Problem Solved:
I couldn't wait to report my finding here and to say, right on-Its fixed! I followed Wolftalks instructions from start to finish, so I could get a good feel for this strange circuit. As it turned out I found the problem in the make before break leaf switches shown in the last photo above with the colored arrows. On this machine the leaf switch in question was breaking just before it was making and was the reason that the SJP coil was not being pulsed to count down the games. So a little leaf switch adjusting to get the quick make just before break pulsing the SJP coil did the trick. As always, the fix is easy but try to find the problem! Thanks to all of you and WolfTalk's help, without it, I would have pulled all of my hair out trying to understand what I was not seeing. As always it feels good to be able to return a none working slot, that is now working to the owner. Thank you all for the input and information, and I can't say enough good about Wolftalk; Thank You!
Jackpot