Double Diamond - Newbie Help - Error code 21

[Dalbok]

Ok, the reels definitely have power.  I tested the difference of having the slot powered off and powered on.  I can definitely feel the difference.  You can almost feel the vibrations from the power when touching the reels.  So they are definitely getting power however they don’t spin when turning the machine on.   


I also took the fuses out and all 3 look good. 


@Jim, I did wiggle the power cable going into the board but figured that may be a moot point since I’ve confirmed there is power getting to all 3 reels.


Any other ideas?


Thanks!

[Dalbok]

If I had done something wrong to the coin optics board would it exhibit these kind of symptoms?  Everything looks good with it but that’s where this started.  I removed it to wipe off the optics with a qtip. Everything looks like it’s put back together best I can tell. 


Also, does anyone know what these connectors are for (see attached picture)?   As far as I know, they have been disconnected since I got the machine so I assume it’s not part of the problem and I’m hesitant to plug them in not knowing what they are and I can’t really trace them without disassembling things further.  They are located to the right of the reels behind a mounting bracket for some counters (which I assume are play counters or similar?).


There are actually several other connectors disconnected that I see but in places that appear to have always been that way and I can’t even see what those wires go to.

[sixcardmark]

Are the coins dropping in the hopper or coin tray?  Try putting a new coin in the comparitor.  When you press the tiny white button on the coin optics does it give you a credit?

[Stayouttadabunker]

...does anyone know what these connectors are for (see attached picture)?   As far as I know, they have been disconnected since I got the machine so I assume it’s not part of the problem and I’m hesitant to plug them in not knowing what they are and I can’t really trace them without disassembling things further.  They are located to the right of the reels behind a mounting bracket for some counters (which I assume are play counters or similar?).

Those larger white Molex connectors in your photo are just for the mechanical record-keeping counters....they are normally worn out and just plain noisy and not needed for home use. They don't have to be connected.

[Dalbok]

I will try that but it’s completely unresponsive.  If I put in a coin it just falls right through.


The test button doesn’t even do anything anymore.  It was working except for the random 21 that would generally clear when opening/closing the door.  I tried to clean the coin optics to eliminate that and it played a few more games and now nothing. 

Are the coins dropping in the hopper or coin tray?  Try putting a new coin in the comparitor.  When you press the tiny white button on the coin optics does it give you a credit?

[Dalbok]

Thanks for confirming.  I figured they weren’t needed but stretching for any ideas.


Thanks!

Those larger white Molex connectors in your photo are just for the mechanical record-keeping counters....they are normally worn out and just plain noisy and not needed for home use. They don't have to be connected.

[Dalbok]

What are the order of operations on boot-up for this slot? Right now, I believe the following happens:


- Flourescent Tubes (GI) lights up, including the 25¢ light.
- Bill Validator goes through cycle test
- Candle Light (bottom, yellow light) starts to flash
- 0 appears in coins played
- (I seem to recall that the before this happened that the Reel Spin Test happened next)


What things could stop the reel spin test from happening?  I have confirmed that they receive power.


And what would prevent the test button from doing anything?


Thanks!

[Dalbok]

I replaced the coin in the comparator.  Coins drop straight through to the tray.  The white button on the coin optics board doesn’t do anything but I’m not surprised by that since the test button no longer works either and the slot isn’t booting up completely. 


Any other thoughts?


I’ve seen posts about resetting the units but I’ve also seen that resetting it isn’t a good thing to do.  What are the circumstances that qualify doing a reset?   I don’t think I’m even able to do it from what I read because I think it needs another chip.   I guess I should’ve left well enough alone but I was trying to resolve the sporadic  error code 21, which wasn’t preventing play just required opening/closing the door to reset. 

Are the coins dropping in the hopper or coin tray?  Try putting a new coin in the comparitor.  When you press the tiny white button on the coin optics does it give you a credit?

[Dalbok]

I noticed that the door optics inside the slot has a small glass globe over it but the optics on the door does NOT.  Is that how it is supposed to be?  I’m wondering if when I was cleaning them with a QTip/water, did I do something to the door optics?   Or if the inside one doesnt have the globe on it, could I have shorted it with the Qtip?


Pictures attached.

[rickhunter]

That's the way they are.  From what you describe, at this point I would try to find someone local who can test your mpu board to make sure it is good.  It could just be a coincidence that it went bad while you were trying everything you did.  I certainly hope that you never plugged or pull anything while power was up as this tends to not end well with these machines.  If having someone test your board is not an option, I would just buy a set of clear and set chips (you will eventually need one or the other) and do a clear to see if you can bring the game back to life.  In the absence of a clear chip, you could also pull the cmos chip out of the system and let it sit for a few minutes, then put it back.  But doing so effectively erases all the configuration including disabling your bill validator which would require the use of  a set chip to re-enable it.  But if it comes back, at least you could still play with just coins.

[Stayouttadabunker]

I noticed that the door optics inside the slot has a small glass globe over it but the optics on the door does NOT.  Is that how it is supposed to be?  I’m wondering if when I was cleaning them with a QTip/water, did I do something to the door optics?   Or if the inside one doesnt have the globe on it, could I have shorted it with the Qtip?
Pictures attached.

The top photo with the domed optic is your emitter optic, while the other, flatter optic is your receiver optic.
However, your emitter optic holder is adjusted fully towards one side of the slotted holes.
I wonder if it is adjusted correctly or not.
Also, one of the washers is missing but that's not important....what IS important is whether or not the optics are lined up with each other in order for the receiver optic to "see" the infrared light coming from the emitter.

[Dalbok]

Thanks for clarifying Stayouttadabunker.  I figured it was an emitter / receiver and they wouldn't be exactly alike, but was trying to think of everything I touched and what I could have affected.  I also had noticed how the emitter was shifted to one extreme in the slotted holes.  I hadn't recalled putting any pressure on that to slide it and it's pretty snug.  In addition, I followed the recommendation I found in another thread to put tape on the door and cabinet while open to see if the optics were aligned and it looked like they were spot on.  I'm not sure how exact the optics have to be in alignment, but best I could tell using that "trick" they were good.

The top photo with the domed optic is your emitter optic, while the other, flatter optic is your receiver optic.
However, your emitter optic holder is adjusted fully towards one side of the slotted holes.
I wonder if it is adjusted correctly or not.
Also, one of the washers is missing but that's not important....what IS important is whether or not the optics are lined up with each other in order for the receiver optic to "see" the infrared light coming from the emitter.

[Dalbok]

Thanks rickhunter.  I was afraid it may be something with the MPU.  I don't think I did anything with the power on, but at this point, I wouldn't bet on anything.  I did find a MPU for sale on eBay.  That's probably easier than finding someone that can do board work in my area (I'd love to learn, but I just want to get this back up and running for my mother to play).  That being said, a couple of questions:


- Is it safe to assume that my board is a 10MHz board since it has the volume control onboard? 
- Is 10MHz vs 16MHz the only thing variable I need to determine before purchasing a board? Are there any other differences in IGT S+ boards?
- Lastly, I found a board on eBay, but would prefer to support this site (or members of this site that have been helping).  Is there a for sale part of this site or vendor list that has parts?  If I'm going to buy a new MPU, it would be nice to go ahead and get one where the removable battery assembly has already been soldered on.


Then, I guess it's just a matter of moving the chips from my board to the new board and setting the DIP switches / jumpers to match current settings?  And from what I've read it may display an error code 61 or 63 when it first starts up that I'll have to work through?  That would be a pleasant site at this point.


Thanks!

That's the way they are.  From what you describe, at this point I would try to find someone local who can test your mpu board to make sure it is good.  It could just be a coincidence that it went bad while you were trying everything you did.  I certainly hope that you never plugged or pull anything while power was up as this tends to not end well with these machines.  If having someone test your board is not an option, I would just buy a set of clear and set chips (you will eventually need one or the other) and do a clear to see if you can bring the game back to life.  In the absence of a clear chip, you could also pull the cmos chip out of the system and let it sit for a few minutes, then put it back.  But doing so effectively erases all the configuration including disabling your bill validator which would require the use of  a set chip to re-enable it.  But if it comes back, at least you could still play with just coins.

[Stayouttadabunker]

You have a zero on the [Coins In] display.
Watch it as you close the door and push down on the door latch all the way down.
The zero should go out for between 2-3 seconds then come back on.
If so, then you KNOW the door optics are working correctly.

If the coins are dropping straight down into the coin tray when the door is closed, or no credits go onto the machine when you push the service credit button on the coin-in optics board when the door is opened, then you might have a defective coin-in optics board.

There are tests you can do to test the coin-in optics board but when you pushed on the service credit button and didn't get any credits to the machine, that told me it's no good.

Place an ad in the Classified section of NLG to get a new coin-in optics board....it's much cheaper than an MPU...personally I'd get both in case the new coin-in optics doesn't solve the coin problem.

At least you'll have spare for later on...

[rickhunter]

The fact that the white reset button does nothing, it is a sign that there's something wrong beyond optics.  If things were normal on the MPU board, the button would cycle through the option pages.  At this point, I believe the MPU is at fault.

[Jim]

have you tried to turn the jackpot reset switch?  check that the cash cab door switch is bypassed,  either at the switch itself or two green wires coming out he back of the metal housing where the bill unit is located,  looking at the fuses doesn't make them good!  the bottom fuse is the 110 volt fuse, since the fluorescent are coming on ,it is good,  the middle fuse when removed will loosen the reels where they can be spun freely,  you can put the top fuse in the middle fuse briefly to check and see if it is holding the reels in place, this will in fact check all the fuses and make sure they are good,  swap the complete cap and fuse, this checks the fuse cap as well.

I would unplug your coin optic plug at this point, since you undid this to get to the optics to clean them, this could eliminate something there!  did you remove the board for any reason?  double check all the connections to the motherboard, see if anything came loose?  double check any pins didn't get bent,

 

[Dalbok]

I have tried turning the jackpot reset switch (and not sure if there are different "ways" to turn it), but seems there from other threads I read, so I have tried to:


- Turn it (90 degress clockwise) with the door open.
- Turn it (90 degress clockwise) with the door closed.
- Turn it (90 degress clockwise) with the door open and hold it turned while I close the door completely and put the latch down.
None of those do anything.

I'm not sure if the Cash Cab door switch is bypassed, however the bill validator test does run when it boots up.  If I remove the cash box, it doesn't run.  Not sure if that indicates anything.  I did only check the fuses, so that's good info about testing the other two.  The fuse caps were finicky in trying to get the fuses back in after I checked them.  I will try putting the top fuse/cap in the middle fuse slot and see what happens.

Out of curiosity, because I've never purchased fuse caps before, if I were to purchase some, could I get them anywhere (Home Depot / Lowe's for example) or is there something special about these?  I assume they are generic, but figured I'd ask.

have you tried to turn the jackpot reset switch?  check that the cash cab door switch is bypassed,  either at the switch itself or two green wires coming out he back of the metal housing where the bill unit is located,  looking at the fuses doesn't make them good!  the bottom fuse is the 110 volt fuse, since the fluorescent are coming on ,it is good,  the middle fuse when removed will loosen the reels where they can be spun freely,  you can put the top fuse in the middle fuse briefly to check and see if it is holding the reels in place, this will in fact check all the fuses and make sure they are good,  swap the complete cap and fuse, this checks the fuse cap as well.

I would unplug your coin optic plug at this point, since you undid this to get to the optics to clean them, this could eliminate something there!  did you remove the board for any reason?  double check all the connections to the motherboard, see if anything came loose?  double check any pins didn't get bent,

[shortrackskater]

Dalbok... please use the default font, size, etc when posting. Otherwise it makes a complete mess. I just made your last post readable. The font was microscopic. This is what happens when you highlight the added HTML and add more. If you really want to do that, highlight ONLY the exact text.
Otherwise it modifies the HTML.
Thank you. 

[Dalbok]

Thanks and understood.  I was not doing that intentionally, but I will be more careful.  I think what may have happened is when I quoted the previous response I was removing where I had been quoted (to keep the posts from growing infinitely long) and I probably edited in the wrong spot and didn’t check.  My apologies.


Thanks for fixing it.

Dalbok... please use the default font, size, etc when posting. Otherwise it makes a complete mess. I just made your last post readable. The font was microscopic. This is what happens when you highlight the added HTML and add more. If you really want to do that, highlight ONLY the exact text.
Otherwise it modifies the HTML.
Thank you. 

[Stayouttadabunker]

Fuses go in this order: 6A, 8A, 6A
Quick blow fuses only.