Reel Florescent Not Lighting

[SilverFerret]

A little back story (Bally 809): For a short time the reel light would come on and then go off as I played and eventually just wouldn't light anymore. I thought it was the bulb going bad so I replaced the bulb with no luck. I have other machines so I double checked the new bulb using another machine and the bulb was fine so I changed the starter and same thing, no luck and double checked it against another machine. Is the part pictured a ballast, and would this be the issue? If so, does anybody have one to sell?
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

Yes, that brass-colored rectangular shaped part is the ballast. Maybe someone here has one in their parts box. If not you might be able to find a replacement that fits at a place selling fluorescent lighting stuff, or online. The ballast will be rated for a certain amount of watts for the lamps that it is connected to.

When you tried replacing the starter did the socket and its elec contacts look ok, the starter fit snugly? The starter and its connections are essential for the lamp to come on.

Also, is the elec wiring for the reel lamp that comes along the door, across the hinge area to main cabinet ok? Sometimes a wire can break from repeated door openings over the years. Is there a belly fluorescent light? It may be connected to the same lighting power wires. Also, you can try wiggling those wire splices that connect to the black wires, if the lamp comes on then the splice is bad. Those splices are crimped-style, so they sometimes get flaky. If a splice is bad just cut the wires connected to the splice and twist them together with a plastic wirenut.

Before you replace the ballast I'd make sure that the 120 volts AC is getting to it. You may have a problem elsewhere that is keeping the voltage from getting there. But if you find another ballast and that is easier for you to try first that's ok too. If you have a meter there is a way to check the ballast, it is basically a coil of wire, so it should have continuity (low resistance measurement) when you check it with a meter.

[SilverFerret]

A funny thing happened while I was checking voltage that I failed to say in the previous post. As I was checking for voltage (which is fine at 115v) I must have touched the wrong thing and created a spark at one end of the florescent bulb, and it instantly turned on. Apparently maybe I accidentally did what the starter is supposed to do? Does this mean if the bulb lights at all, it's not the ballast? Afterwards, I turned the machine off and back on to see if the bulb would come on again with no luck.
I'll check the socket for the starter but if the light would go off on its own, how could the starter be the issue? Doesn't the starter only get the bulb to light? I'll check the wiring as you said but each time I've checked voltage, it's good.
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

I think you are on to something with the starter. When you did that spark and the lamp started working ok that likely means the ballast is ok. They don't go bad all that often, that's why I suggested checking everything else.

The starter is only needed to get the lamp to come on. After the lamp lights up the starter takes itself out of the circuit and doesn't deal with turning the lamp off, but a bad or wrong starter can keep the lamp from working. The ballast is always in the circuit. If the wiring and 115 volts is solid then I'd look further into the starter thing.

Make sure you are using the correct type of starter, they come in different flavors. Compare the part number of the old original starter to the one you have been subbing in. May need to pull the starter socket off and inspect the wire connections to it. The starter is basically like a switch that comes on for a second or two, then switches itself off and in conjunction with the ballast that temporarily raises the 115 volts to something like 180 volts to ignite the lamp. Sometimes there is a bypass capacitor in the starter and they can go bad but you've already tried swapping it.

[SilverFerret]

What confuses me is why then the lights would go off and then come back on (until finally it stayed off). If the starter is no longer part of the circuit then I'd think the light would stay on. Sounds like maybe two things were happening at the same time... the bulb was going bad and the starter or starter socket became an issue.
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

I edited my previous post to add more info. The starter sometimes has a bypass capacitor that allows the 115 volts to pass thru it when its starting switch has opened. So the starter is needed for the lamp to stay on.  Once the lamp lights then it doesn't take much elec for it to stay on.

[SilverFerret]

Okay, I'll focus my attention on the starter/socket. Do you know the correct part number?
Thanks, Jim

[sixcardmark]

You can take the starter out of a s+ while it's lit and the bulb will stay on.  I may have an extra one of those brass ballasts.

[Amechanic]

You have looked st everything except one thing, the bulbs end contacts. Those wires will come out of the metal clips. Try giving the lights end socket wires a little tug ( with the power off) to see if ones loose.

[SilverFerret]

You have looked st everything except one thing, the bulbs end contacts. Those wires will come out of the metal clips. Try giving the lights end socket wires a little tug ( with the power off) to see if ones loose.

I suppose that would be a good idea. It's definitely puzzling.
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

You can take the starter out of a s+ while it's lit and the bulb will stay on.  I may have an extra one of those brass ballasts.

ok, good to know!

[rokgpsman]

Okay, I'll focus my attention on the starter/socket. Do you know the correct part number?
Thanks, Jim

I don't have one here, maybe someone else can give the part number for the starter.
The Bally EM manual just says part number "E-411-4", but that manual doesn't cover all models so don't know if that is correct for your machine. If the starter for the reel glass lamp works ok with the other fluorescent lamps in the machine then it's probably ok.

As others have said, all of the wiring and sockets contacts need to be ok.

[rokgpsman]

What confuses me is why then the lights would go off and then come back on (until finally it stayed off). If the starter is no longer part of the circuit then I'd think the light would stay on. Sounds like maybe two things were happening at the same time... the bulb was going bad and the starter or starter socket became an issue.
Thanks, Jim

Whenever the fluorescent lamp goes out (with power still on) the starter then comes back into the circuit and tries to restart the lamp. But when the lamp is on the starter takes itself out of the circuit. The starting switch inside the starter is activated by a small gas discharge bulb inside the starter, it only comes on when the fluorescent lamp is not lit and power is on for the machine.

[SilverFerret]

What confuses me is why then the lights would go off and then come back on (until finally it stayed off). If the starter is no longer part of the circuit then I'd think the light would stay on. Sounds like maybe two things were happening at the same time... the bulb was going bad and the starter or starter socket became an issue.
Thanks, Jim

Whenever the fluorescent lamp goes out (with power still on) the starter then comes back into the circuit and tries to restart the lamp. But when the lamp is on the starter takes itself out of the circuit. The starting switch inside the starter is activated by a small gas discharge bulb inside the starter, it only comes on when the fluorescent lamp is not lit and power is on for the machine.

I get the premise, just confused why the bulb would go out when it appears that the bulb isn't bad having checked it with my other machines.


What sort of voltage should I see at the starter socket? I'm only getting roughly 2.5v. I guess I'll check another machine for that as well but just thought of it while typing but still, has anyone ever checked for this?
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

.....I get the premise, just confused why the bulb would go out when it appears that the bulb isn't bad having checked it with my other machines.....

Like Amechanic said earlier, could be something like bad/loose contacts in the lamp sockets. 

I think that with the machine powered on and the fluorescent lamp not lit and the starter removed you should see 115 volts AC at the starter socket contacts.

[SilverFerret]

.....I get the premise, just confused why the bulb would go out when it appears that the bulb isn't bad having checked it with my other machines.....

Like Amechanic said earlier, could be something like bad/loose contacts in the lamp sockets. 

I think that with the machine powered on and the fluorescent lamp not lit and the starter removed you should see 115 volts AC at the starter socket contacts.

Just checked another machine and yep I have 115v at the starter socket... so now to find out why I'm not getting that at the other machine. Joys of wire tracing... yay!
Thanks, Jim

[rokgpsman]

May be a bad connection in the wiring, at a splice or a socket.

[DavidLee]

Did the old lamp have dark grey ends? This is a sign of a lamp that is going bad.


Okay, if you have a lamp, starter and ballast that have been tested or proved to work.
The next logical reason would be a poor connection.
Try twisting the lamp very slightly back after it has seated. Do this with the machine OFF.
Or not if you like the sensation of electrons running around you body looking for a ground.
I’ve had both ways on occasion and prefer it without electrons.
Check all wire nuts pertaining to this circuit. Investigate any wire connection with black tape on it.
And check to see if the copper receivers in the sockets are in their right position. As in not bent, half missing or burned away.