Red, White, Blue S+ machine

[Busser0554]

Hi all. First time machine owner here. I want to thank everyone for the knowledge I have received from this page. I am a first time machine owner as I said. I picked up this machine from an estate sale from a family friend who had passed. What I have is the Red, White and Blue machine. The inside of the door identifies as an S+ machine (the cpu and motherboard are in the rear of the cabinet) I powered up the machine with it in the 61 loop (the machine is from 94 and it appears the battery has been changed recently as it still has 3.6v) I got the ram clear chip and followed the instructions provided and was able to further to the 61-1 and reset the machine. The lower candle light is flashing so I checked the door optics with the inputs test (13_0) and a cell phone and optics are working. (sounded like the machine may need to complete a spin in the game cycle to stop the light?)  now my issue is the machine wont accept coins for credits.. I noticed the led on the comparitor never lights up with the door open or closed(i checked with a mirror). I checked the rake on the comparitor the coil never energizes to let the coins to the hopper. I shimmed out the rake to let the coins drop to the hopper and the coin in optics do not see a quarter drop to the hopper. (however testing the input with 11_1/12_1 with a piece of paper the input flags,  along with if I block/unplug the optics I get alarm 21 in the winners paid.. Any help would be appreciated as to why it does not recognize credits and tips for troubleshooting. Thanks- Nate

[jay]

Hi,

Quote "now my issue is the machine wont accept coins for credits" - We need a bit of clarification on this point.
So if you put in a coin and hit spin reel or pull the handle does it spin ?

If this is a 3 coin game typically you can put in 1-3 coins then spin, a 4th coin won't go to credit.
After a ram clear all pays typically go to the coin tray but you can change this in the settings and have pays go to credits.
Ie a 10 coin pay will show up as 10 credits.

[Busser0554]

Not it does not spin with the handle or the pushbutton after adding coins. It does not register that coins have been added to the machine. I've tried different quarters, nickles ect...it does not add credits with the little white button under the comparitor either

[jay]

Is there a sample coin in the comparitor?

When you drop a coin in its compared to the metal properties of the sample coin.?

[Busser0554]

Yes. I've tried different quarters nickles and dimes in the comparitor. It's a 25cent machine it says on the glass.

[jay]

The S+ does not really know denomination.  It uses coins and credits. The various mechanical checks below control coin handling but once a coin is accepted - its simply a coin - and has no value to the machine.
Change the glass, change the sticker, etc.... its just a sticker.... the machine (electronics) doesn't care - I have bought lots of mis-matches in the past.

The coin head on the machine - metal thing on the outside - is a guide to prevent someone dropping in a dollar token if everything else is setup for quarters. Of course with a dollar head on the machine you can still drop in penny, dimes and quarters.

The coin comparator CC-16 is designed for Penny, Nickle, Dime or Quarter and similar sized tokens. You need to have a sample quarter installed in the comparator for it to compare against the coin being inserted.
There is a dial on the comparator - I suggest turning it full counter-clockwise to reduce sensitivity. The CC-33 is large format designed for dollars, and large tokens. Basically the same as the 16' just larger.

The coin optics board - also known as ABC optics lives directly below the coin comparator, once the coin is validated by the comparator a second check is done making sure that a coin is falling and passing each of the 3 optics - if the coin is not falling at the right rate of speed or is being pulled backwards (ie a coin on a string used for cheating) then you cut a error 21 (coin in - tilt). I believe you have already simulated that in your above testing.

Finally the hopper has a wheel which is designed to pickup a certain size of coin - the hopper optics (u shaped plastic thingamabog) is positioned such that each coin passing counts it out. Too big or too small of a coin and it won't pass by the optics correctly and may not be picked up by the hopper wheel.

Please take a picture of your coin comparator and harness and post it.
IF your using a cell phone camera you may need to email yourself the picture first to reduce the size before posting. 

[Stayouttadabunker]

......(however testing the input with 11_1/12_1 with a piece of paper the input flags,  along with if I block/unplug the optics I get alarm 21 in the winners paid.....

It appears you have no problem getting into the tests...that's good.
However, you're not ever supposed to trigger a code [21] when doing the "popsicle" test...that's highly unusual. lol
That tells me that you're really may not actually be in the Input Tests of 10,11,12 Coin-in ABC optics tests, but rather, in the Output Tests of the 11,12 Coin out/in meters?   (Phew! That's a tongue twister!)
Those are for the mechanical counters...each press of the spin button makes the mechanical counters click.
You didn't hear the counters click because you were sticking stuff in between the ABC optics...lol

I could be wrong....haha...I'm only human and you did't make a video of what you did.

[Busser0554]

It is the cc16 comparator I've attached a photo I have on my phone I'm at work right now so if it's to large I can try again when i get home. I Also tested the counters in the output tests and they were working along with the hopper motor, sounds, reels, pushbutton lights ect. Sounds like since I never see the red led on the comparator in an on state and the rake doesn't work I should try a working comparator off ebay?  Nope says file is to large

[Busser0554]

It does state cc-16-d.100

[jay]

IF your using a cell phone camera you may need to email yourself the picture - you will be prompted to reduce the size.
Then post the one that you mailed yourself. 

[Stayouttadabunker]

The LED on the coin comparitor ( CC ) doesn't come on while the door is in an open-state.
It only comes on when the door optics are working, and when the door latch is pressed fully downwards.
Right at that very moment, whatever number is in the [Coins Played] window of the display goes out for a couple of seconds, then comes back on.
At that time, the "Insert Coin" light should come on as well, and the machine is then ready to accept a coin that matches the coin in the CC.

[Busser0554]

Optics are working. insert coin light comes on and a zero in the coins played light up after door closed and latched. Used a mirror with the door closed and latched and never see the led on the cc

[Busser0554]

Photo

[Stayouttadabunker]

I'm surprised you don't have quarters coming out of the top, because there's no coin in the coin comparitor.

See that label that says "Slide To Replace Coin"?
Slide it to the right enough to put a coin behind it, and let it close against the left side.
The coin you put in there is the only coin the machine will accept...are you using quarters?
Close the door latch all the way down , watch for the "Insert Coin" lamp to come back on again, and drop a coin in the slot.

If the machine doesn't accept the coin, tell us where the coin went to.
There's only three places it can go...>>>
The hopper bowl.
The coin tray.
The hole in the bottom of your machine.

If it goes anywhere else, your house is haunted.

[Busser0554]

I have a quarter in there and tried three different quarters.  at first it would go to the coin tray because the rake on the C.C never opened. I shimmed out the rake and now it goes to the hopper but doesn't give a credit to the machine....

[Busser0554]

Yes I didn't realize there needed to be a test coin in there until last weekend.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Underneath that coin comparitor is a small, sandwiched circuit board called the coin-in optics.
When the coin falls thru the coin comparitor, it goes thru the ABC coin-in optics board, and if good, sends logic data signal back to the MPU to register a credit.
The ABC optic board works by "seeing" coins falling thru three optical eyes at a certain speed and direction.
You need to to do the "popsicle stick" test to verify that it is functioning.

Take more pictures of the wiring around that.
Maybe someone will spot something wrong.
Wiggle the wiring connectors a little.

okay...the other thing you could do is take a small screwdriver.
Stick it in the sensitivity potentiometer dial and turn it counter-clockwise all the way - until it stops.
Then turn it clock-wise a 1/4 turn.
The CC willl now be adjusted to, somewhat in the ballpark, to accept a U.S. quarter.

[Busser0554]

Wiggled plug connections again, I played with the sensitivity potentiometer on the comparator with no luck. Did "popsicle test" through the three-input test's according to my manual... 10_1 would be used with both comparator and the ABC. I could not get the input to flag in the winners paid with the door shut or open. I went to 11_1 and 12_1 with the comparator disconnected and got the optics to flag every time. I can post some pictures tomorrow. Everything seems to be working but the comparator...

[Stayouttadabunker]

The [10-1] test not working is not good.
That means the top "A" optic of the ABC optics is possibly burned out.
You're able to get the 11 ("B" optic) and 12 ("C" optic) to "flag"...unfortunately, you need all 3 optics to be working in order for the circuit board to register a credit.

I'm still not convinced you did the test right.
The door has to be physically opened.
The coin comparitor is not needed...in fact, it's in the way of doing the tests.

Are you mechanically-inclined?
Can you take apart the ABC optics sandwich, clean it, take some pictures of it spread open, and then re-assembled it back in the machine?

Could you try this first?
Turn that sensitivity dial on the CC fully clockwise, close the door, and drop some coins in?
If that doesn't help with coin acceptance, try it again but this time, turn the sensitivity dial fully counter-clockwise and drop some coins in.

Shimming out the rake is the same thing as removing it entirely.

[Busser0554]

I work on cnc machines for a living. Electrical and mechanical. I will try the 10_1 test tomorrow with the comparator disconnected. For having the machine only 2 weeks I have gained alot of knowledge and lingo from reading the forum and this being my first post to the fourm.