Bally 917-1 Coin Issues

[big_e]

Hey guys
I haven't dug too deep but am struggling because of the complexity of this machine.  Side switch set to coins.  I toggle the coin switch and nothing happens.  I pull the reel mech, manually latch the coin relay.  Arm lock opens allowing play.  Subsequent coin switch toggles make a clicking noise up top, but do NOT increment odds to different lights.
What would NOT allow the coin relay to pull in, but once its manually latched allow relays to try and advance up top but not actually increment stepper for odds.
ThanksE

[wolftalk]

schematic is on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/


the schematic is showing the game went on a stand and the stand had circuitry in it.  If you don't have the stand, there's a dummy plug that you insert into the socket where the stand plug goes  to jumper around the stand components.


one of the things in the stand was a coin switch in series with the door coin switch.  If your door coin switch has a grey wire on the common terminal instead of a yellow wire, then see if you have the stand socket and if there's a plug in it that is jumpering pins per the diagram on the schematic.


besides the stand switch, the only thing in the circuit is the door coin switch, a handle release relay switch and a switch on the coin relay.   


if the game works in replay button mode when you have credits, then the handle release relay switch and coin relay switch are ok.


just saw your post on other topic.  Sounds like the schem is all you need.


if you can email some highest possible resolution pics of the game to slotpics@cdyn.com or stick them on a cloud drive/file sharing site and let me know where to grab them, I'll add them to the above site.  Especially interested in the stand plug, but entire front of game and as many internal pics as you'd like to take would be appreciated.

[big_e]

OK thank you Wolftalk, I cleaned that plug and it appears to have gotten me further.  It atleast coins now, unlocks handle, and I can keep adding coins and it increments the odds stepper.  The lights dont increment, they just go out.  But it does in fact step.  ITs odd.  But anyway in credit mode it will only take one press of the button.  Not any more.  But after I press it once, if I toggle the coin switch it will increment and step, and pay accordingly.  Lights dont move though.  They light on the 1st coin, then go out as you increment.  Sometimes flickering.  I also tried manually closing the repay relay, and when I do it continues to step up, and decrement credits.  So its something in line with the circuit that closes that relay.
Lots of small issues, but most important is the ONLY taking one credit, and not multiples.
I am attaching a photo of the plug.  You will also notice I am missing a relay in the lower back right.  Not even sure what its for.
ThanksEric

[wolftalk]

the bottom relay that you have is the credit button delay relay.  The missing relay is the 1 KR relay (KR = Krona = Swedish loot).  You don't need it.


the odds lights are directly powered by a wiper finger on the odds unit.    It's the finger with the red wire on it - the one on the 22 rivet on the below diagram. Usually you just need to clean the rivets ... a green scrub pad and some denatured alcohol will do it ... but occasionally you'll need to bend the finger a little so it applies more pressure to the rivets.


also grab the red wire and give it a tug.  If it breaks off, it was barely hanging on and needed resoldering.


could also be poor lamp sockets, but really unlikely since there's multiple lamps for each odds level.    If wiggling the lamp makes it light, you need to fix the socket.  How depends on whether it's a flat socket or a tube.


most likely problem with the replay button only working to reset the game is the 5th step odds unit switch isn't closed well.  That switch is on the ratchet/gear side of the odds unit and is one of the switches poking out over the ratchet.  The one you care about has blue/white wire 25-1 and white/black wire 58-3 on it.  Make sure the switch is closed unless the unit is at the top step when a pin moves the blades.


if you have a jumper wire, jumper the switch closed and that will prove if you have poor switch contact. 


if not sure, send pic of ratchet side of the unit when unit is reset and at top step.

[big_e]

Thanks for the help.  I cleaned those contacts well, and it doesn't seem to have any effect.  Contact closure is good, and seems to have continuity.
From a sitting state, I press the replay credit button and it decrements the replay counter one, unlocks handle, and you can play.  If you try a second press nothings happens.  SO I tried pressing it and watching all the relays in the top go through their sequence.  If I only play one credit the steppers don't move.  So that contact in question must make contact in order to work the first time, and never moves so I am thinking there must be another link in this chain broken.
Looking at the schematic I am wondering what MICRO SW. may be or PAYOUT RE.  Basically when you press credit nothing moves except the handle lock coil so whatever is not allowing a second press of that switch must be related to that.
Am I thinking about this correctly?
E

[wolftalk]

If I only play one credit the steppers don't move.  So that contact in question must make contact in order to work the first time, and never moves so I am thinking there must be another link in this chain broken.

assuming "contact in question" is the open at 5th step odds unit switch, then no, it does not need to work for the game to reset.  After you spin, the coin relay switch will be closed and bypass the open-at-5th switch.


however, you are probably okay based on what you've done.  The nasty bit is the first press of the replay button just resets the odds unit and trips the coin relay, which trips the handle release.  That gives you minimum odds without the odds unit needing to step up.


to increase the odds, the odds unit must step up, and of course it's not as straightforward as the replay button powering the step-up coil directly :-)


so, here's what happens in sequence on button presses after the first one to reset:


1] replay button powers the replay relay (green circuit below).  That should be okay.


2] replay relay switch turns on the odds motor (yellow)


3] odds motor cam 3 switch powers the odds relay (not the odds unit step-up solenoid directly) ... (blue).  The odds relay keeps itself powered until the odds unit step-up solenoid plunger pulls all the way in (purple).


4] odds relay switch powers the odds unit step-up coil (orange).  When the plunger pulls in, the odds unit end of stroke switch opens and unpowers the odds relay.


when the odds unit step-up solenoid loses power, the springs pull the plunger out of the coil and the wipers step around one position.


a good test is whether the odds advance in coin mode.  If they do, then a replay relay switch or odds motor cam 3 switch is the problem.  Which replay relay switch depends on whether the odds motor runs.    If odds don't step in coin mode either, the handle release switch, anti-cheat relay switch or odds reset relay switch need checking.

if the odds relay powers and stays powered, but the odds unit step-up solenoid doesn't fire, that's another clue.

could also be bad coils or plug connections.


one advantage of the convoluted circuit is you can hold down the replay button and the game will advance the odds itself.  You don't need to push the button multiple times.  That not only speeds up play, it reduces the chance of finger related injuries (like the dreaded pushee ouchie than slot pros can get) that may make the player leave the game.


make sense?


the "micro sw" in the replay relay circuit is sitting on top of the handle box.  It opens when the handle is pulled down.
 

[big_e]

Phil
What an awesome explanation with visual aids!!!!  Thank you.
Yes the odds step up unit works wen you coin the machine 2-5.  Each time I press the coin switch the unit steps up but the odds motor does not turn.  Should the odds motor unit turn when it is coined?  I was thinking that was just for the credit play.
E

[wolftalk]

you're right, the odds motor only runs in credit play.  In coin mode, the replay relay is not used.

in replay mode, the coin switch still needs to work when you have no credits, so if you manually operate the coin switch, it'll work to reset the game / increase the odds in either mode.

the difference is in credit mode, if you have credits, the coin lockout coil is unpowered and the machine rejects coins back out to the tray.  Only the replay button should cycle the game.

with your added info, the schem is now like below.  The purple is when operating the coin switch. 

all the green/purple stuff is good, so the only thing left is the yellow.  Whether the odds motor runs or not tells you which yellow switch(es) to look at.

... except ....


it appears the yellow circuits need to work for the game to trip the coin relay and release the handle on the first coin.  Since that works, you are back to some issue getting the replay relay to power on the second replay button press.

I guess you did say "nothing" happened on the second button push.  The replay relay powering would be "something" :-(

just to sanity check, if after a spin you manually trip the handle release then push the replay button, do the odds step up?