949 with payout and electric issues.

[Phan000]

Did a fairly thorough cleaning on this 949.

Now house gfi outlet trips randomly when door is closed on machine.  This did not happen before cleaning.

With door open,  machine plays fine and breaker does not trip.


Also,  machine pays correctly on right set of reels.  Left side has runaway jackpot.  I don’t see the left side counter stepping at all.  Machine will pay the correct number of coins, then lights dim momentarily, and it starts payout process again.

[wolftalk]

this?

[Phan000]

Amazing Wolf,  think you spotted it!   I moved that wire out of the way for now, and no more shorts.

Game is paying on both sets now as well, no runaway hopper.

It has a few odd pays,  so I’ll have to make sure the wipers are all
Matching up properly.

Thanks!

[wolftalk]

I think there should be a 470 ohm 10W resistor on that wire ... same as on the left multiple relay.  The resistor goes across the coil lugs.

the game will work without it, but there's some risk to damaging the diodes / capacitor.

and yeah, it was a lucky catch.  I was looking at the red end of the carriage wondering if it had to fit where the red arrow is painted on the door :-)

[Phan000]

The short returned, and upon investigation I saw this device had come un-duct taped and was grazing the reel with the door closed.

I temporarily taped it back, and short stopped.

First-  what is this?  There is one in between each reel on the door.  The way it’s painted, I don’t see how it could be a light.  None seem operational.  Can I remove and cap off?


The machine is paying for strange combinations as well.  Paid 20 for the one noted and runaway on the combo noted.

Solenoid at the bottom of the right counter looks cruddy.  The washers or counterweights are loose as well.  Not sure how important they are.

[wolftalk]

they do look like lights, but I'm pretty sure bally never duct tapes their games togther.

there is separate GI lighting for the left and right game.   

I'd probably rip out all the stuff associated with those things ... I'd guess the terminal strip and fuse also ... and see if the original lighting is there.

your reel tapes look slipped out of position.  The deepest index disc slot on reels 2-6 should be the 7's.  On the first reel, the seven is the same depth as the others, but there's one deeper slot which is blank and powers the hopper mixer relay.

reel 2 and 4 are the same.

once the symbols are lining up right, payout issues will be easier to figure out.

[Phan000]

Just to clarify- If the 7 on reel 1 is in an average sized groove…how do I determine which one?

[wolftalk]

a 7 on reel 1 should be in the same depth groove as all the other reels when they show a 7 (depth 4).   

the wipers should be on the same row of rivets as all the other reels with a 7.

reel 1 has a depth 5 slot which is deeper, but all the other reels the deepest slot is depth 4.

below pic is looking at the reel wiper board from the wiring side, so when looking at the wiper side when a 7 is on reel 1, the wiper contacts should be on the 7th row of rivets from the right edge.

[Phan000]

I aligned the reel strips correctly.

Still getting a runaway hopper on right set of reels.

Tried replacing the bottom right counter coil, but no luck.

Manually, the counter steps up and snaps back correctly.  But seems like no power going to the right counter side.

[wolftalk]

ok, at least now you can set up a win reliably :-)

the left payout counter is mechanically stepped and the right payout counter is electrically stepped.

there's not a lot in the circuit ... see below.

if left pay multiplying is working right, then the left payout arm microswitch should be good, so that just leaves two switches.

the safety motor should prevent runaway payout, so either the right ratchet cam switch is stuck open (the roller should be out of a notch and the switch closed when the right payout counter is reset), you've got issues with the right payout relay/switches, or the safety motor isn't running.

[Phan000]

The safety motor is the one that cuts everything off when the hopper runs dry, correct?


When I set a winning combo on the right reels, as the quarters come out, I’ve manually stepped up the right counter.  It does stop appropriately in that method.

How do I test the right counter switches?

Thanks for the help.  With two machines in one, this  in an interesting project!

[wolftalk]

if the switches look ok (overtravel after contacts touch, clean), then I'd jumper the right payout relay switch with wires 53-2 and 71-5 and see what happens.

if that doesn't help, jumper the left payout relay switch with 71-5 and 45-4 wires.

if that doesn't work, test the microswitch mounted on top of the left payout arm ... where the pivot arm is that the coin see-saws when it leaves the hopper.  Use a coin to test the microswitch ... put a coin under the pivot arm roller so the microswitch lever is pushed down and see if the switch is closed using an ohmeter.

another way to test the microswitch is jumper 53-2 to 45-4 and see if a left pay causes the right payout counter to step up.

[Phan000]

I see the 53-2 on the schematic, but don’t see the 71-5 or the 45-4

Is there a master list of codes and wire colors somewhere?

Sorry for my ignorance!

[wolftalk]

there's no wire location chart.

53-2, 71-5 and 45-4 are the wires along the yellow highlight path in post #9

[Phan000]

I re-cleaned and tried to adjust the right payout  relay.

There was some movement in the stepper, but inconsistent and not enough to step
Up properly.


I noticed that with one coin, the right payout counter solenoid does not move.

With multiple coins,  it moves, but the counter still does not step up.

These are the switches for the right payout relay. The bottom photo is the solenoid that moves with multiple coins.

[wolftalk]

pedantically, a solenoid is a coil with a plunger going into it.  A relay is a coil is a metal armature plate that gets pulled down onto the coil top.

the relay hanging off the front of the right payout counter is the right multiple relay.  It should only power when you've played 4+ coins.

what I'd do is jumper wire 53-2 to 71-5 on the right payout relay.  If you aren't familiar with the color codes, that's a white/yellow and orange/red wire attached to the two blades of a switch that looks to be lower on the tall stack in one of your previous pics ... probably switch B (second switch from bottom).

jumper those wires together and shove the hopper back in, then manually close the payout arm microswitch - don't need a win on the reels.  The right payout counter should step up. 

if you play max coins and manually close the microswitch a few times, the multiple units should step up.  Sounds like that's probably ok, so the microswitch is ok.

if the right payout counter wasn't stepping with the jumper on, check the left payout relay switch with wires 71-5 and 45-4 (green/white) wires in it.  You can also jumper that switch.
 

[Phan000]

Thanks so much for the help wolf!

So the right payout relay  jumper didn’t work, but the left one did.

I had to register a win though.  The micro switch didn’t make the right counter step up, but the win did.


So the left one is bad?   What is the next step.  Very pleased to have it finally step up!

[wolftalk]

So the right payout relay  jumper didn’t work, but the left one did.

I had to register a win though.  The micro switch didn’t make the right counter step up, but the win did.

I wasn't very clear on that, was I :-(

when jumpering the left relay switch, ya needed to leave a jumper on the right relay switch for the microswitch to work.  You got around that by setting up a win and letting the game close the right payout relay switch for you.

your left payout relay switch isn't working.  Clean/adjust it and if necessary verify it's closed with an ohmeter (with hopper out of machine).  The switch should be closed when the left payout relay is unpowered.

I guess it's possible the left payout relay is powering when it shouldn't ... any chance you can see it when it's in the game?

tmi below:
------------

- the game mechanically steps the left payout unit.
- there's a microswitch on the link arm that will electrically step the right payout counter

- if you have a win on both left and right, both the left payout relay and right payout relays will power, because the left payout relay is powered, the circuit to the right payout counter step-up coil is disconnected by your problem switch.

- as coins eject, the left payout counter steps up until the correct pay, then the left payout relay loses power.  Your problem switch closes.

- since the right payout relay is still powered, the hopper keeps running and coins eject. 
- the microswitch is stepping the right payout counter, and the left payout counter is still stepping up mechanically.
- when the right payout counter gets to the correct step, the right payout relay opens and the hopper shuts off.

so the game pays a left win first, then the right win. 

[Phan000]

I adjusted the left payout relay switch and all is right in the world. 

Thanks wolf for all of your detailed responses.  I really appreciate it!