809-n jackpot bell runaway

[Phan000]

I just jumpered the f trace to the outboard wiper wires again to refresh my memory-  100 & 200
Pay Flawlessly


When I jump the 100 or 200 to the 50,  the first 20-40is coins pay pretty well, but it begins to misfire again after that.

When I adjust the f/100 wiper,  it only seems to get marginally better or way worse. It is showing continuity.

[wolftalk]

continuity is good for finding open circuits, but ya need to be careful with closed circuits.

it's better to measure the resistance, but even that can give you the wrong answer when a connection works fine until more current is trying to flow thru it ... then it coughs up a lung. 

while it's not a common issue, you can only see it by using a voltmeter.  In this case, during payout.  One probe on wire 70 on any handy 50V coil, other probe on the wire between the outboard fingers.  If the voltage drops way below 50V, then a poor connecting is adding resistance and reducing the current flow to the payout relay coil.

one of the following is happening:

1] the surface of the F trace is oxidized.  Scrub it with synthetic steel wool or other mild abrasive pad that doesn't scratch the trace

2] the contact on the outboard finger is cruddy, burned, has a pimple or possibly the contact is loose on the finger. 

3] the finger isn't pushing against the trace with enough pressure

4] your replacement disc has the same issue as the old one ... a damaged area of trace.  You can sometimes loosen the wiper finger and cock it a little to get the contacts on a different part of the metal trace.

[Phan000]

I cleaned the f trace as it was slightly oxidized.

The attached photo was before cleaning,  but it appears that the bottom of the f-trace is slightly damaged.

I moved the wiper to the uppermost portion of the trace.

Pays a bit glitchy at first,  then pretty fluidly,  which seems to make sense as the rest of the trace is undamaged.

Haven’t tested the voltage yet.

[wolftalk]

I wouldn't worry about the voltage test ... seems like you've found the issue.

you have a lot of options for trace repair because it's possible to layer a strip of material on top of the trace that is long enough that the outboard wiper always stays on it.

the usual problem with soldering something like a thin copper strip on top of a trace is when a wiper contact has to step on/off the edge that spot can be flaky. 

you can add a piece that stops short of where the main wipers are sweeping past and won't have any issues ... something like this:
   https://www.amazon.com/Conductive-Copper-Foil-Tape-4inch%C3%9752yds/dp/B0827QM8GD

since a wiper is sliding on it, thicker tape or a strip of copper is best so you have some allowance for wear.

[Phan000]

Tape did the trick!

Pays flawlessly now.

Have to double check the multiplier & adjust the coin accepted/ paid off lights.  Also no chime for jackpots.

Otherwise perfect!

Thanks for all that contributed!!

[wolftalk]

the chime is powered by a "hopper cam switch" ... I have no idea where that is.

there's also a payout relay switch with brown wire 60-1 and on the middle blade connecting to grey/black wire 98 when the payout relay is powered.  Definitely make sure that switch is ok since it and the payout counter step up arm switch helps prevent pitting of the payout counter traces.

[Phan000]

That switch looks ok.

So the coin accepted light works, just needed cleaning.

Coin accepted light does not, though it will light up when jumped.

Winner paid lights with jackpot payouts.

Never lights up & bell stays on with bar bar bar win.

[wolftalk]

That switch looks ok.

So the coin accepted light works, just needed cleaning.

Coin accepted light does not, though it will light up when jumped.

Winner paid lights with jackpot payouts.

Never lights up & bell stays on with bar bar bar win.

ok, ya lost me there.  You mean the "coin accepted" light works, but the "insert coin" and "winner paid" lights don't?

the bell ringing forever when you get a matching bar win is what the schem says should happen.   You have to spin to get it to stop.  I'd disconnect wire 30 from the bar jackpot relay switch with wire 10-2 on the other blade and connect wire 45 where 30 was.  The bell will stop when pay ends.

you can connect to wire 45 on a reel mech A-2 switch ... I assume the bar jackpot relay is on the reel mech?

[Phan000]

Ok sorry to have been unclear.

The coin accepted light works perfectly.

Insert coin light never works, though fixture works when jumped.

Winner paid light comes on after 777 and 555 wins are paid off.

Bar bar bar wins never make winner paid light come on, and the bell stays on.  Understand the bell is wired that way,  but why would the light not come on?

[wolftalk]

when the game is over, if the payout counter is not reset, the winner paid light should be on.

the only thing in the circuit to the winner paid light is a payout relay switch (closed when payout relay unpowered) and the payout counter reset pawl switch.   If "coin accepted" works, the payout relay switch is ok.

take a look at the reset pawl switch ... should have wires 91-2 and 48-1 on the blades.  Can almost see what's going on in 3rd pic in post 10, but pic is too close in to see the wire colors attached to the blades.

"winner paid" working for 777 and 555 but not bars doesn't make sense per the schematic ... there's no difference in those three things.  Implication is someone has goofed on wiring of the reset pawl switch.

do you have a jackpot tower light on top of the game?

the "insert coin" lamp problem is most likely reel mech C-2 switch with wires 18-2 and 36-1 on the blades.

[Phan000]

I don’t have a candle on top of this machine.

Here are a couple of photos of the reset switch.




Couple of other areas as well

[wolftalk]

the reset pawl switch is indicated by arrow below in first pic.

need the pic taken from further back so the wire colors are visible.

in the second pic, the C-2 switch is marked with yellow arrow.  Clean the contacts or jumper blades together and see if your "insert coin" light works.

your switch travel limit bars (red arrows) are all misadjusted.   They should not be touching the long moving blade.  The blue arrow points to how it should look with a gap at the green arrow (the long blade shouldn't have that much curve either, but there's limits to my graphics editing skills).

the purpose of the bars is to limit the travel of the short blade so it can't stay in contact with the moving blade when the moving blade bends left.  The way yours are adjusted, the limit bar is trying to prevent the switch from closing by limiting the travel of the moving blade.

third pic is maurice's 917 ... more like how the limit bars and switches should look.  Bonus points of you noticed he's missing the bar on the variator cam that alters the spin timing.

[Phan000]

I adjusted the switches on the reel mech as suggested & made some minor adjustments to the reset pawl switch.

Winner paid light works for all wins, coin accepted light works.

So just the insert coin light is the only issue remaining.

Here is the reset pawl switch

[DavidLee]

Coin relay toggles insert coin / coin accepted lights.
Swap bulbs or jump a solid yellow to the coded wire connection,
as to eliminate socket and bulb.
Sometimes the solder tabs need a slight movement.

[Phan000]

Adjusted all of the switches mentioned again  &  all lights working pretty well.  Insert coin is perfect,  coin accepted is 90%.   

Just for clarification,  what switch set is the coin accepted? 

[DavidLee]

Best to trace color code from the light to the switch.
Schematic provided show the C switch #1 contact,
but this from a newer machine. Your machine switches might be in a different order.
With one coin in remove the reels, insert a thin paper strip between one set of closed contacts on the coin relay.
Re-install check light in question. Repeat until it goes off, those will be the controlling contacts.
Might want to remove excessive carbon dust accumulated on contact fiber spacers from between contacts.
.01% it could cause problems.

[DavidLee]

Wanted to add photo of C switch.
Contacts might need adjustment.
Manually operate switch for proper position opening and closing.

[Phan000]

That was it.   All lights and payoffs operating normally now.

Thanks so much for the help!