New in the hobby and small issues - Continental and Medalist

[DavidBelg]

I believe it's dutch import though all is written in English (labels, tag, ..)


No docs unfortunately.

[DavidBelg]

I've been working on my continental to fix the multiple payout (higher odds) problem.  Sometimes payout cycles were skipped when the machines was 'cold'. For example a cherry x6, only paid 2 coins x3 instead of of 2coins x6.  But after a few multiple odd payouts it worked ok.

So for this I cleaned and adjusted all wipers and base plates assy's in the head, also the switches located on the motor in the head.
Also the switches on the relay 'odds reset'.

Will have to see how it will behave because the game only did it when it was cold.

The game is a jackpot above 400 only pays 200 coins.
And this is exactly how my game behaves.

It only has one issue.    When I make a combination that gives me 300 jackpot:
- for example 50 x 6, it works quite perfect, pays 50 coins, resets pays 50 coins, resets, ... up till 300
- but when I do 100 x 3, it pays the first 100, then i hear the score motor running for the odds/reset, then I see the payoutboard wipers resetting but the machine is like too fast and it doesn't fully reset to zero, during the reset it already starts paying out so the coins between 100 and 200 are actually only 60 or 70, it then cycles again, does a reset again (for the coins 200-300), pays some coins and then says all is paid.

I took a picture from another topic, but could this be the problem switches that I need to adjust (because now these switches only seem to open after about 5-10 coins paid).  Or how could I make the reset sequence longer during multiple odds?


I must say that in regular circumstances after a 100 or 250 win, a new coin in and handle pull resets the payoutboard alwyas correctly. It's not binding and it resets quite fast with correct spring tension.

[wolftalk]

the vertical switches your arrow is pointing at are operated by the carriage ... which moves slowly so those switches won't change state until the payout counter steps a bunch.  The schem calls those switches "open at 20 carr. sw", so I guess bunch=20.  They aren't involved in 100 pays.


which 847 model is it?  If it's one with a replay register?  That may change how the payout counter steps.


if a coin mechanically steps the payout counter, it does look like there's a race condition since the payout relay can power as soon as the payout counter wipers move back onto the 100 trace during reset. 

the variables are:

1] how fast the payout relay powers.  Check the 470 ohm 10 watt resistor as it should absorb some of the initial current

2] how long it takes from payout relay powering to the hopper motor turning the pinwheel and the override solenoid retracting to allow a coin to pass.  Adjust payout relay 120V switches to close as late as possible while still having good switch contact action.

3] a coin lifting the roller pivot arm will push down the payout counter step-up arm linkage.  When the linkage is low enough for the reset pawl to snag a tooth on the ratchet, the wipers will stop resetting.  Adjust/raise the pivot arm mounting bracket to delay this as long as possible while still having the coin step the unit reliably.

4] how fast the wipers reset.  Bally says don't lubricate the contact plate, but as the wiper contacts wear, they tend to drag a bit more.  Excessive wiper tension on the traces can also bog down reset.  A really thin smear of a light oil can help make the wipers whizz back to reset. 

got a video of your payout counter resetting from 100+ steps?

[DavidBelg]

Wolftalk thank you for the pointers!

The tag in the head reads:
847  1379


Game has no credit reels in the head and it's the paid coin itself that advances the payout gear/wipers.


I made two videos:
- a normal reset from an earlier 100 coins payout (+ a 5x 2 coins from a single cherry followed by a 6x 2 coins from a single cherry)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-urKeoD6Sw


- the 300 payout that shows both resets at 100 coins and at 200 coins (which in the video seem to look ok)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hZ3ZnfGovE

[wolftalk]

the payout wiper reset looks fine ... back to making up crazy theories.


I put all the docs for the 847 on http://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/


the thing I haven't seen docs  for is the odds motor cams.  Those things determine some sequencing stuff.  If you can take a video at an angle that allows seeing the switch stacks change state for entire/multiple revolution of the cams, that will help figure out the circuits.   


when you have an issue, what symbols are paying and at what multiplier?  Assuming you need the 100 trace involved, can you make the problem happen with different symbols?

[DavidBelg]

There is only one 100 payout (3x double bars) so that's the only situation in which it can happen.
The 6x 50 payout, 6x 20x, etc all work perfect, of course there is less travel to be done when the payboard needs to reset.

I think the problem is connected to my (only the first time when machine is cold) not multiplied odds correct payout.   
That the reset is not always happening at full power.  So some contact in that circuit to activate the reset coil is probably dirty or misaligned.  I went over all switches (clean and adjust) on the odds motor, odds follower relay and odds stepper units, but it's hard to troubleshoot when you don't know which one is the one causing the problems.

[DavidBelg]

Looking at the schematic.. I think odds motor switch 3 or odds follower relay or payout counter unit (zero switch??) would be the 3 that could be the problem causer.


Is there a logic to know which one is switch 3?   Is that cam no 3?

[wolftalk]

The number on the schem is the cam number.   Cam 1 is probably the one nearest the motor.  It's the carry-over cam ... it has a switch to keep the motor powered until the cams have spun some number of degrees (typically 120, 180 or 360).  The cam 1 profile will be raising the switch stack most of the time, and the stack should always be lowered in a notch when the game is at rest.   


when there's multiple switches on a cam, go by the wire colors if there's no manual with the switch stack diagrams.



if you're having flaky behavior with the payout counter not resetting when the game is first turned on ... regardless of the payout ... then I'd suspect the open at zero switch on the payout counter.  Clean and make sure you get good switch action when the payout counter steps up.


it may be that after a couple switch operations, the contacts have scrubbed a little and are making a better connection ... tho that would imply the 300 pay should work after you've had other pays.


for the zero switch, only the moving blade tension is creating the connection force, so don't be shy about bending the moving blade so it exerts more pressure against the stationary blade when the unit steps up.  The ratchet pin will have no trouble pushing the moving blade away when the unit is reset.


if cleaning/checking the zero switch doesn't help, make sure the switch stack screws are snugged down.  Don't go gorilla on the screws as they are soft and will shear.  Also make sure there's nothing mechanically wrong with the payout counter like:


1] the coil sleeve and plunger should be clean, dry, unworn and have no lubrication in the sleeve.
2] the linkages/pawls should pivot freely
3] if you manually operate the plungers and feel any drag or binding, see if the plunger end has mushroomed from slamming into the coil stop and has a ridge around it that is scraping the sleeve.  You can file off the ridge, but if the sleeve is worn replace it.  Sometimes you have to replace the coil if you can't get the sleeve out without a special tool.  It should be a common bally coil used in pinballs as well as slots, so the pinball parts suppliers have them also.

[DavidBelg]

So far I have had two mornings in which the game did a correct multiple payout when the game was cold.
I retested the 3x 100 payout and this too worked correct! 


I must say I adjusted/cleaned a lot of the switches on the odds motor cams, some relays and the zero switch on the payout board.


So I will do the followup for a while and see if both problems stay away.

[DavidBelg]

Just a small followup.  The problem reappeared where multiplied payouts had some payouts 'skipped' (6x2 coins only paid 8 or 10 coins, but only when machine was cold).

I've adjusted the zero switch a lot 'better' and now the problem hasn't returned. Though the reset of the payout board always worked correct between pulls, the zero switch was too soft and not fast enough for reset cycles in the multiplied payout sequence.


This makes me wonder... how reliable where these games in the casino's back in the days?