Author Topic: Bally 1115-5 questions (Read 17816 times)

mark the spark · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2015, 08:15:59 AM »

I'm sure if you put a dc relay in an ac circuit it will chatter at mains 60hz

kb8yrw · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2015, 05:51:58 PM »

A DC relay in an A.C. Application will most definitely hum or chatter. The big difference between the two is the lack of a shading coil on the DC relay. The shading coil basically does a slight phase shift of the sign wave while it passes through zero 120 times per second. In other words it retains some magnetism to stop the coil from de-energizing when the sign wave goes to zero. The DC relay does not need that because it is either fully energized or zero. Since the A.C. Relay operates on an average of the peak (rms) voltage the impedance is different than that of a DC relay so if you use the wrong relay you will eventually burn up the coil.

kb8yrw · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2015, 06:48:10 PM »

I believe I removed one ghost that was in the machine. I found the switch at the bottom of the stepper unit was not closing. I adjusted it and now the coin in problem I was having appears to be gone. I ran about 50 coins through and it registered every one without missing a lick. I still can't get it to count coins out of the hopper. I ordered a new relay to replace the hopper relay with the open coil. I ordered an AC and a DC relay because I'm still not sure if the DC relay belongs in there. I attached a photo of the switch that was causing the coin in problem and also circled what I think is the zero switch that was referred to. The switch is working but the hopper is not counting. I'm hoping the relay will correct the issue. Removing the relay makes no difference in the operation.
This really is fun

The Fatman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2015, 07:06:37 PM »

Is the spiral disk advancing with every coin as it leaves the hopper. Check the advance coil on the back of the payout disk. Manually operate the linkage to see if it advances the 100 tooth gear wheel. On this model, it has an electrical operation of the payout. Check to see your hopper roller wheel makes the switches when a coin is directly under the wheel before it leaves the hopper. If the switches are dirty, out of adjustment or have a bad beau (Molex) plug connection, it will keep the payout unit from advancing. If you really get into working on these, making or buying a set of cables to plug into the hopper so you can work on it outside of the unit to give you a better view of what is going on. Hard to see the payout unit working when it is blocked by being in the machine. There is a friend here that makes them and sells them on eBay and has given a discount to forum members here. A very well made cable, looks better than the ones I made out of speaker wire. But these are for only the beau plugs and not the molex connectors.
Dave F

OldReno · « **Reply #24 on:** January 10, 2015, 12:21:34 AM »

The switch on the left is your EoS, or end of stroke switch, which forces the odds step up solenoid to stay on longer, thus allowing the odds to step up more positively. It will steal coins, but you can hear it step, so it is deceptive, but at least you know the coin switch senses the coin in. Good find.

kb8yrw · « **Reply #25 on:** January 10, 2015, 07:43:56 AM »

Quote from: The Fatman on January 09, 2015, 07:06:37 PM

Is the spiral disk advancing with every coin as it leaves the hopper. Check the advance coil on the back of the payout disk. Manually operate the linkage to see if it advances the 100 tooth gear wheel. On this model, it has an electrical operation of the payout. Check to see your hopper roller wheel makes the switches when a coin is directly under the wheel before it leaves the hopper. If the switches are dirty, out of adjustment or have a bad beau (Molex) plug connection, it will keep the payout unit from advancing. If you really get into working on these, making or buying a set of cables to plug into the hopper so you can work on it outside of the unit to give you a better view of what is going on. Hard to see the payout unit working when it is blocked by being in the machine. There is a friend here that makes them and sells them on eBay and has given a discount to forum members here. A very well made cable, looks better than the ones I made out of speaker wire. But these are for only the beau plugs and not the molex connectors.
Dave F

The spiral disk does not move at all when the coins are passing under the hopper switch. I can manually index the disk by pushing on the armature with the washers on it and reset it by pushing on the reset solenoid so it does move. I also manually index it and then spun the reels to see if it reset and it does after the second reel stops. You are correct about working on it with the hopper in place, hard to see. I think DonnerPartyofAte suggested taking the hopper extension off to better see what was going on. The extension cable is a good idea to get things out of the way and definitely worth considering if my EM collection grows! I did check the hopper switches with a meter and they are making. My biggest thing right now I think is the open coil on that relay. I need to find out what the relay is supposed to be doing in the circuit because I may just be chasing my tail with this problem until that is corrected.

The winner paid light used to be on all the time but now I noticed it does not light up at all and the pay meter does not advance. I am thinking that is because it is not acknowledging the coins passing under the switch in the hopper. Definitely learning a lot about these old machines and plan on digging into it today but my wife has a few projects she wants me to start on first.......

Jon · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2015, 07:41:44 PM »

I have two machines with the same hopper one has a DC relay one has an AC relay both with the diode and capacitors and they both seem to pay properly and function properly

OldReno · « **Reply #27 on:** January 13, 2015, 10:35:08 PM »

You can test your payboard step up and reset solenoids with a simple jumper of 1 wire. And you can do it with the hopper out. Unscrew and move your payboard out where you can get at it. Clip one end of your jumper onto the NON-Orange side of the coil you want to test. Then, lightly but politely touch the other end of your jumper wire to a solid yellow wire (you can easily find one on the door). You should note that your solenoid fires. Do this for the step up solenoid on the payboard, and also the reset solenoid on the payboard. Note, a solenoid is a coil with a hole and plunger in it. This will tell you rightaway if the solenoid is good or not. If they fire, then trace back the wire from each of them (not the orange wire), and especially look for where the step up solenoid wire goes. You should find it ends up eventually at your coin out switch operated by the coin out roller.

kb8yrw · « **Reply #28 on:** January 17, 2015, 07:02:59 PM »

I had to take a hiatus from my project but got a chance to poke around this evening. I took out the pay board as suggested and checked all the contacts. I didn't find any that were not closing but did find some with high resistance over 2k. I put it all back together and it is counting and paying out correctly finally!!! The machine is a lot of fun and I just love bring something back from the dead. I still have not figured out what the relay in the hopper is for.....coin mixer maybe? It does have a few little things that still need attention to be 100%

The first thing is payout meter. The meter advances but when it tries to zero it only does the 1's column not the 10's. Can it be cleaned perhaps?

The second thing is the bell does not ring. I need to find what triggers it. It did ring once so I know it does work and I checked the coil for continuity and it's good. I'm hoping to get some more time tomorrow evening but got to go into the office all day again. Wife has been playing now for over an hour and having a ball!

Amechanic · « **Reply #29 on:** January 17, 2015, 07:16:36 PM »

I do believe that you can buy a replacement payout meter on EBay under Bally slot machine..

kb8yrw · « **Reply #30 on:** January 17, 2015, 07:47:52 PM »

Quote from: Amechanic on January 17, 2015, 07:16:36 PM

I do believe that you can buy a replacement payout meter on EBay under Bally slot machine..

Got it thanks for the tip!

kb8yrw · « **Reply #31 on:** January 24, 2015, 03:32:58 PM »

Finally a day off! Worked 93 hours the past 6 days but finally caught up on some sleep and got to work on the slot machine. Still trying to chase down the problem with the intermittent bell. Sometimes it rings every payout for a long stretch then it will stop ringing for a long stretch

Sometimes it will ring halfway through a payout. It's got to be a bad connection or contact somewhere but I am having a hard time finding what triggers it.

I noticed another anomaly with this wonderful machine that I was hoping someone could say "oh that's just the thinga ma jiggy not making the whatsa hoogie" When you just put two coins in and spin then put one coin in the next spin it does not clear and show 1 coin but still shows two. If you put a second coin in it lights the third payline so all three are lit on only two coins. If a third coin is put in at that point it just falls through. So in other words it gives you two paylines on one coin or three paylines on two coins. It works fine with just 1 coin or three coins but does not zero out after playing two coins.

OldReno · « **Reply #32 on:** January 26, 2015, 11:37:12 AM »

You will see some switches that are actuated by the two tabs on the plastic white gear of the odds disc. Check them out, and probably one of them is not making correctly. I would guess one of them is not making on #2 coin in, and only fully closing on 3rd coin in.
It probably should be closing fully on 2nd coin in.
If that don't work we''ll try something else...

The Fatman · « **Reply #33 on:** January 26, 2015, 11:51:23 AM »

Contact cleaner on the whole bank of switches might not be a bad idea as well. No file ... just cleaner and a business card.
Dave F

kb8yrw · « **Reply #34 on:** January 26, 2015, 06:13:07 PM »

Quote from: DonnerPartyofAte on January 26, 2015, 11:37:12 AM

You will see some switches that are actuated by the two tabs on the plastic white gear of the odds disc. Check them out, and probably one of them is not making correctly. I would guess one of them is not making on #2 coin in, and only fully closing on 3rd coin in.
It probably should be closing fully on 2nd coin in.
If that don't work we''ll try something else...

I am assuming that you are referring to the step up unit when you say the odds disk? I have seen in some paperwork I have an odds disk but it doesn't look like anything I have in my machine. I did remove the step up unit and check the switches with a meter. Unfortunately they all test good. I lubricated the unit and reinstalled and it still does the same thing. 1 coin good, 2 coins good but does not clear back to one coin next play when only one coin inserted. When you insert two coins it shows three lines. Put a single coin in after three lines and it all resets and plays normally on 1 and three coins.

Back to the drawing board

The Fatman · « **Reply #35 on:** January 26, 2015, 08:04:43 PM »

Check the handle relay switches to make sure they make contact and are good when it drops down.
Dave F

OldReno · « **Reply #36 on:** January 27, 2015, 11:30:13 PM »

Look at P.18 of your free downloaded bally EM Manual, and you will see the circuitry involved.
Find at bottom of diagram the odds reset relay, and odds unit reset coil (solenoid).
Note that going to the odds unit reset coil, there is a switch called odds unit open at zero switch.
This should be one of the switches I spoke about earlier.
If that switch stays open at first odds (that means 2nd coin in), then the reset coil will not fire until the 2nd odds (3rd coin in). So, check your switches again, they have different functions. Some of them tell the unit to reset, some of them turn off the coin lockout coil, some turn off the insert coin light.
The idea here is to get the machine's odds unit (or line unit, whichever you prefer to call it) to reset to zero odds on the next game when the first coin is put in for a new game. If you are only playing one coin, there is no need to reset the odds, and therefor you don't care a whit about those switches. They are only there to tell the odds unit when it must reset to zero. Be aware that just because the switches check ok with your meter, does not mean they are adjusted correctly. They can meter fine, but still be closing at the wrong time....
Also, check your Odds unit E.O.S. switch, which must be adjusted close enough so that your odds step up relay stays closed long enough for your odds step up coil to fire completely and fully. If it (EOS) breaks too soon it will steal coins.
Also, please indicate if the machine is making any noise at all when it steal the coins and fails to step up. Listening to the machine can tell you a whole lot about what is going on.
Send a pic of your odds unit if you can.
Your odds unit should look something like the drawing on page 56 of your free downloadable bally EM manual...? You can see the switches I am talking about #19, and the EOS switch #22.
Hope that helps.

OldReno · « **Reply #37 on:** January 27, 2015, 11:43:03 PM »

OK, I ran on a little too long on that post. Let's try again.
You should have at least 3 different sets of switches operated by the plastic tabs (or metal) on your odds white plastic gear.
One of the sets is normally closed when the odds unit is reset, and stays closed on 2nd coin in, and only opens on 3rd coin in. this switch turns off your insert coin light.
Another of the sets does the same thing except it turns off your coin lockout coil which keeps the customer from putting 4 coins into a 3 coin machine.
The other and last set of switches should be normally open with the odds disc reset. It is supposed to close when the odds disc steps one step, and stay closed when the odds unit steps a second step (3rd coin played).
IF that switch does not fully close on 2nd coin in, then the machine will not know to reset the odds when you start another game. It will stay on 2nd coin, and will advance one more step when you put in the first coin for a new game instead of resetting like it should. Then it closes, and says, ok, time to reset on next game. Of course, if the switch never closes, then your odds disc will never reset at all.
I really think this one switch is your problem, but I might be wrong. This is a very common problem that I have run across many times before, and I think we are working in the right area.

kb8yrw · « **Reply #38 on:** January 29, 2015, 04:45:44 PM »

First let start by saying thank you for taking the time to explain so much of this machine it really is appreciated.
I took some time with a meter and my eyeballs to visually inspect the switches on the odds unit. I have 4 switches plus the EOS switch.
From the back:
reset 2nd 3rd
White/red - Blue/red - 65 .4 .4 (ohms)
Black/white - Yellow - NO .4 .4
White/black - Yellow - 520 520 .4
Orange/red-Yellow/brn .4 .4 4 (four)

I can physically see these switches opening and closing so I think the resistance readings I am seeing is caused by something in parallel with the switch. I even stuck a card in between the switches showing resistance so I know they are open.

The first pic is Reset -1st coin
Second pic - 2nd coin
Third pic - 3rd coin.

The Fatman · « **Reply #39 on:** January 29, 2015, 05:44:21 PM »

I dont think the resistance of the switch is as importaint as the connection. Need to be a good solid connection. Looks like a good contact cleaner and a stiff nylon brush to scrub is needed. then you can make sure the make and break connection as Donner has explained.
Dave F

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Author Topic: Bally 1115-5 questions (Read 17816 times)