Author Topic: Bally 831 - Hopper motor runs with every pull (Read 20428 times)

DavidLee · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2015, 12:08:43 PM »

Have you made any progress on the runaway hopper?
The machine I'm currently working on had been setting along time.
I found the grease on the Zero Switch pivot armature was rock hard and the arm wasn't moving freely.
Even took about 10 minutes to work it free from the shaft.
Its centered in the photo, grey with a 3 point metal keeper holding it in place.
Not saying this is the problem, but you might want to see if its moving freely up and down.

On a side note, I have a friend who owns a Bally Pinball machine called "Wizard!" He ask me to take a look at it.
What happens when a coin is inserted, it will add games on the counter. Also it will reset the knock down targets if they are manually activated and I believe it kicks a ball out of the hole. Have any suggestion as to where to look first. I'm not real familiar with the workings yet, it was a bit over whelming at first glance.

Amechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2015, 12:13:31 PM »

One thing I've noticed is that we have no pictures of your machine? Many time we can see things wrong in a picture that you don't.

Just my opinion, but it sounds like you have a short in your machine causing the hopper motor to run as it does. It could be a bad light bulb socket. You need to check that the plastic insulators are covering the bare wires in the relays contacts. Check your beau plugs wires for broken or grounded wires. Your hopper wiper board is another place to check for shorts.

Gary

Amechanic · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2015, 10:36:25 AM »

Did you ever solve your problem??

DBreneman · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2015, 02:21:16 PM »

Sorry it took me so long to reply - I didn't receive an email notification for the posts on the 4th.

I had to set this project aside for a while because of other priorities, but I'm hoping to get back to it this weekend. So although I've been ruminating on it : -) I haven't made and progress since my last post. I'm hoping to get back to it this weekend and will post some pictures of the major components.

As far as the Bally pinball machine goes, I'm most familiar with Gottliebs, but as to the issue with the drop targets, are you saying that they reset, and the ball is kicked out to the plunger, any time a coin is is inserted? Do the score reels also reset? It could be that the play button, which you press to start the game and add additional players, is stuck closed. In that case, any time a credit is established, the play button receives power, and the game will reset.

DBreneman · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015, 07:15:23 AM »

This will be the weekend that I put pictures up, or die trying. :-)

Incredibly busy with work and other required activities, so needless to say, I've made zero progress since my last post. Thanks to everyone for their patience.

DavidLee · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2015, 08:15:05 AM »

I was wonder what was happening with your machine. You have been busy on other things. I know how it goes, rather be working on a machine, but lots of other projects in between. Pick up old Vendor Coke machine V-39, been sitting in a garage for 35 years, so I have running, but still needs some attention. Also got another Bally quarter machine that has the opposite problem it won't run, but very fixable.

As far as I understand the hopper receives its power from the wipers behind the reels when they move into a payout position. The roller pivot on top of the hopper activates the relay which advances the coin counter until it moves off the pay out contact strip shutting off the hopper.
Also not sure if this is probable, check for coins around or stuck in the safety timer at the bottom left rear of the machine. Its a long shot, but you never know.

I'll keep your problem in mind when I'm working on my machines, maybe something will click.
Re: pinball machine, thanks for the information. As I mentioned it belongs to neighbor so its low on the list of things to do.

DBreneman · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2015, 02:16:30 PM »

Finally I've had a chance to take some pictures. I hope someone here might see something obviously out of adjustment that I'm too much of a newbie to notice. Here is the reel unit. The left-side shots show it at rest and would up.

DBreneman · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2015, 02:18:47 PM »

Here are a couple shots of the feature unit.

The Fatman · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2015, 03:03:06 PM »

First of all I see ... is that this is not an original 831. I have a few of them and none of them have 2 beau plugs in the head unit. This has either been converted and using an 831 cabinet, or someone just put the ID plate on the machine, or all of the above. The bottom might be an 831 hopper and reel assembly but I dont believe the top unit is right for an 831.
Dave F

DBreneman · « **Reply #29 on:** May 23, 2015, 04:26:32 PM »

That's puzzling, because the feature unit has "2296-831-ZZSH" written across the face, and there is a label which identifies it as a model "831-22M". There is also what appears to be a service tag attached to the feature unit that's stamped "831-2296" with "ZZSH" written in pen above it. The number plate identifies the machine as model 831-ZZSH. And the inside of the upper unit does not look as if it's been modified, unless it was done so by a very fastidious worker. I've read that Bally made many sub-models of their machines. Could that account for the different feature unit in this one?

The Fatman · « **Reply #30 on:** May 23, 2015, 04:51:38 PM »

Its possible ... but a new one for me ... Old Reno should be able to chime in on this ... All I can respond to is what I know ... which I think you were looking for ... advice and an opinion.
Sorry if its not what you expected or lookng for. But thats all I know on this ... keep on looking ...
Dave F

DBreneman · « **Reply #31 on:** May 23, 2015, 05:48:21 PM »

I am definitely looking for advice, as I'm a novice. I appreciate your input. I'm just trying to provide as much information as I can. I only paid $100 for it, so I have little to lose if it is in fact inauthentic.

OldReno · « **Reply #32 on:** May 23, 2015, 07:02:08 PM »

It certainly appears to be an authentic Bally.
Beyond that, I don't know, but all that's important is that it is Bally.
Finding out what Model it is exactly is up to someone who has one like that.
It could have been either a 3 line or 5 line perhaps.
I dunno....

Long as it works, that's all.

DBreneman · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2015, 09:50:57 AM »

That's why I'm hoping that someone with some repair experience on this machine can help me. I'm just not seeing any obviously bent or damaged switch blades, and the problem is very consistent, Since it's been a while since my original post, the problem again is this:

The problem seems to be centered around the payout counter combined with the second reel. If I stop the clock at any point before the second reel indexes, the hopper motor will run continuously until the safety timer shuts it off. However, if I stop the clock right after the second reel indexes (and before the third reel indexes) the machine dispenses the typical (approximately) 56 coins and stops, which is what it does if I don't interfere with the clock at all.

If I manually depress the payout counter reset solenoid, then power up the machine, it will immediately pay out 42 coins. So the extra approximately 14 coins that are paid out when the machine cycles appear to be a function of the time that passes between kickoff, which resets the payout counter, and the indexing of the second reel, which starts the 42-coin "countdown."

OldReno · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2015, 11:50:38 AM »

Just for kicks, after it does that next time, push back on the timing bar (over the clock and fan) all the way back and look to see if the big spring is hitting on any of your Reel Mech C stack of switches. I have had that lead to runaway pays. If so, move the stack away from the spring so that it never touches.

DBreneman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 25, 2015, 12:20:37 PM »

No, there's about 1/8" clearance between the spring and the switches.

DavidLee · « **Reply #36 on:** May 27, 2015, 09:44:41 PM »

Looked at the photos and in the very top photo "reel switches" I noticed four solder lugs on the top switch blades appear to be touching or very close. It might be just the camera angle, but it wouldn't hurt to separate them a little more.

DBreneman · « **Reply #37 on:** May 28, 2015, 04:40:41 PM »

I was all ready to confess what an idiot I'd been for not noticing that, but unfortunately when I checked, it's just the angle of the picture.

DavidLee · « **Reply #38 on:** May 28, 2015, 07:59:51 PM »

Would of been an easy fix.

Amechanic · « **Reply #39 on:** May 28, 2015, 08:20:35 PM »

Without going back and reading the whole thread, I had an 742, or should say still have a 742 Money Honey that had a similar problem. Every time I would pull the handle the hopper run till it counted 18 coins. I finally found that the machine had a wire pinched between the hopper beau plug and mounting bracket. Once I fix the wire that had grounded out the machine works great. So I would say that you might be facing something similar with yours. It could be any where. Make sure all your plastic insulators are in place on your relays wires and on the door. Also look closely at your two doors molex plugs.

Gary

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Author Topic: Bally 831 - Hopper motor runs with every pull (Read 20428 times)