Coin Lock Out, Bally 1090

[DavidLee]

Finally got back to the 1090 and replaced the missing Coin Lock Out Coil, now I know why it was removed.
Its in good working order as the coil does work properly except for two functions.
Before I get to the specific problem, this is a 3 coin machine and the insert coin doesn't switch over to coin accepted light.

1. The coin lockout coil does not re-energize after a complete play cycle causing a new game coin to drop into the payout tray.
2. Between coins the coil does not d-energize for the brief fraction of a second.
So far I manually checked the C switch and the handle switch and they both activate the coil.
After the C switch returns is when the coil will not stay energized.
Read over OldReno's notes on the Coin Lock Out Coil. Just need to find one of 8 switches that is not closing.

Going to look in the top unit which hasn't been cleaned for a long time, but not sure what to look for exactly.
A point to the right direction would be greatly appreciated.
 

[OldReno]

Good job, good analysis.
The most common reason the lockout is intermittent is because of your dashpot switch which is on the pump arm, and operated by handle indirectly.  Often when you close the door, the pump arm gets moved, unnoticed, for various reasons.  You will note that if you pull your handle arm very slighty forward, you can hear the lockout armature open and close.  (you should be able to...if there is a return spring on it, and if it don't then replace that spring)
One purpose of the dashpot switch is to kill the ability of the coins to trip the coin switch (resetting your odds...)  in the middle of game play (handle pull specifically).  With door open, pull handle, and then push down on the coin in switch on the door and see what happens.
You can  just bendyour dashpot permanently closed.  I do not think it will affect your machine operation at all, since you are not a casino (afaik).
Cool.
I try to remember that the only purpose of the coin lockout coil, and coin lockout armature is to keep the machine from taking coins.  that's all it does.
When power is off, it's hard to say the machine took your money, too...

[OldReno]

Your insert coin should stay on until AFTER the 2nd coin is inserted.  After 2nd coin you don't want more coins so it turn off then. After 4th on a 5 coin machine.  This is done via odds unit disc switch in the top.  The problem is your coin accept light may be burnt out.  You can check this by turnning a jumper wire from any plain YELLOW (30) wire on the door, and gently touch the other end to the NON Blue side of your 'coin accept' light bulb.  You can do this with any of your 6V lights that are not on.

[DavidLee]

Made some progress on the Coin Accepted light. Tested the bulb like you mentioned, works fine.
So then I traced for continuity all the way to the Coin Relay Switch unit and wiring was okay.
Clean contacts and manually activated the latching mechanizium, everything appeared to be working.
Put the Reel unit back into the machine. First coin in the Coin Accepted lights up. Second time nothing.
After a few ins and outs and the same thing happening. I was thinking Beauplug problems. I pulled the unit out about 1/4 inch a gave it a little sideways action on the way in and now the light works every time.
So a least I have it narrowed down to be investigated later.

[DavidLee]

Regarding the Coin Lock Out Coil, haven't got to the top unit yet. Maybe tomorrow or Monday.
As far as the dashpot on the upper right side of the reel mech. the one activated by the Air Cylinder Linkage.
[size=78%] Can I permanently close the contacts and it won't effect the machine?[/size]

[DavidLee]

Okay, made a little progress on the coin lock out in the sense of what is suppose to happen, but still not working properly.
Will try to describe the situation as best to my understanding of what is and is not happening.
Plugging the machine in the Coin Lock Out Coil  (CLOC) DOES NOT energize.
Tripping the coin switch 3 times (3 coin machine) the CLOC  DOES energizes until the C switch opens at the very end of a play cycle.
If I hold the CLOC armature ( give it a little help ) it will pull in and release on the first coin, but not the second.
After a complete two coins cycle the CLOC WILL NOT pull in with a little help on the first coin. Suspecting the odds unit 2 coin position.

I've cleaned the odds unit and it seems to be in good working order. I suspected the odds unit or and open someplace in between.
Checked the Yellow / Red ring wire and have continuity all the way. So its back to the odds unit for a closer look.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.     

[DavidLee]

Looking to compare Switch Stack on the Odds step up unit. The machine is a 1975 Bally 1090 3 coin if it matters.
As it appears that two of the contact blades might of been installed in the wrong order.
Suspect wires are the yellow/red and the white/black. Seems they should be reversed in order.
If you have a odds unit out of a 1090 machine, please compare and let me know which wire is first from the screw head side.

[DavidLee]

Okay, compared switch stacks and everything is in the right order. Thought for a second that ithe switch stack might of been reassembled in the wrong order. Back to square 1, which is getting the coin lock out coil to be energized between games so the machine will accept coins. Where is the open in this circuit, the mystery continues.

[OldReno]

OK, here's what my 873 schematic shows, and note that MOST ALL ballys are wired the same way......
From the coin lockout coil, the path goes  and splits at the Jackpot lockup relay, and the other side of this short path is the JP reset key switch (so you can play off a jackpot).
Then the line goes and splits again through the odds unit open at 4th step and a coin relay switch (This is so you can coin the machine again after playing max odds, note, without the coin relay switch there, the lockout would be permanently off after max coins)
.Then line comes together and goes through RM C--3, and then the dashpot switch.
Then to payout relay, RM C1, RM A switch, and finally back to the coin switch where it picks up the OTHER side of the circuit through the 30 wire.
Your machine should be very similar.
Good luck, I will keep checking back

[DavidLee]

Thanks for the information. I found another machine to compare the odds step up switches and everything checked out as far as the wiring. Also cleaned and re cleaned all contacts. Tested all switches and contacts that I could manually test, the handle, latch switch on the reel mech., payout hold works, and odds works on last coin. Checked the hopper and it appears that the Yelow / Red has continuity from the female plug pin to the contast blade.
Still no current to hold coin lock out coil in between games. Still have some wire tracing to do.
Regarding the door switch that is missing. On this maching I believe it worked with the coin return button and was wired  with the Red/ Yellow wire and the White / Black wire have been cut and taped separately.
Crossed them and doesn't make a difference. Which leads me to believe there is an open circuit? Still have to trace the White / Black as it seem to have no current at anytime. The loose Yellow / Red wire will activate the coil. I know the White / Black wire makes its way to the odds unit, but only energizes on the 3rd coin at that point. Going to trace it back point to point to see whats up. So the mystery continues. Will keep you posted on any progress. Also will add photos that might help explain what is going on tomorrow moring.

[DavidLee]

Added one photo of the cut wires that I assume were attached to a switch that worked in conjunction with the coin return mechanism.
Haven't had time to get back to the problem yet.

[OldReno]

The 31 wire should go to your coin lockout coil.
The other one, I have no idea.
What colors go to the lockout coil now?

[OldReno]

Saayyyyyy,
Was this a dollar machine at one time???

[DavidLee]

Okay, made a little progress and found out what is causing the malfunctioning coin diverter. First the Coin Lock Out, swapped a couple of contact
blades on the Odds Unit and now it energizes on the last coin. Either they where re-installed in correctly or this machine had different components. The machine had a sound system added and the wiring was in place to the female Beauplugs, but not on the male Beauplugs.
Hence different Reels and Hopper, but same step-up units.
Regarding the Coin Diverter Coil, found the Solenoid for the Hopper Level burned and malfunctioning. Problem now is to identify the coil. It appears to be the same as the other two (see attached photo) but none of them have identification. Going to start a new post as to ID these coils.

Let me say the Topic is half Solved. Still need to figure out why the Coin Lock Out doesn't energize prior to inserting the first coin.
Might need to do some creative wiring with the white / black ring wire. I traced it back to a terminal block with wires on one side, but not the other. So its open on both ends and available to get some current close to the Coin Lock Out unit.

Thanks for all the help.