Williams 400 Jackpot Party not working

[ucanwin]

This machine has not been working since Dec. of last year. Many parts have been replaced. It has been coming up Dot Failed. I just installed replacement XU-17, XU-18, XU30 and XU-31 chips and now have a different problem. Now I am getting TILT, ronn in the credit window, Sound in the Win window and 0 in the coins played window.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?
It has a new power supply in the lower unit, the board under the lower power supply has been replaced with a working board, the upper power supply is working. All 5 red led lights on the right are lit, none lit on the left side. None of the player buttons are lit or the area to the right of the reels.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Sunrise Side]

Sound Rom issue? SOUND  EPROM. Maybe a bad  chip or bent pin?

[ucanwin]

Hi,
Thanks, for your reply.
I pulled the sound chips and there are no bent pins. The 4 sound chips are new. Also, there is no bong when machine is powered up.

[Calfdemon]

You stated that many parts have been replaced trying to fix this and then say that you put in new XU 17, 18, 30, and 31 chips.  Those are the chips that handle the sound files.  And if you are now getting a ROM SOUND error, at least one of those chips are bad.  Put your old chips back in as those 4 did not need to be changed on a previously working game.  More times than not, the DOT FAIL is the upper power supply going bad.  Why are you so sure that your upper PS is working properly?  First thing to do is put back your old XU17, 18, 30, and 31 chips and hopefully that will eliminate the ROM SOUND error and put you back a DOT FAIL.  I would then replace your upper power supply first and see if that fixes the DOT FAIL.

Just because all 5 of the lights are lit in the MPU box does not mean there isn't a problem with the upper PS.  They are usually more indicative of a lower PS problem which is not the case here.

[ucanwin]

The upper power supply is new. I will replace the sound chips with the old ones. The ones that I now have in, are a different version than the ones that I took out. Would that have made a difference?
CORRECTION:
The upper power supply is NOT new in my Jackpot Party. It was the Big Bang Piggy Bankin' also having a problem mentioned in my other thread.

[Calfdemon]

That very well could have made a difference.  If your sound files are not matching the files that your XU2 and XU3 chips are looking for, you will get the ROM SOUND error for sure.  So it is possible that the different version messed it up, or it is possible that one of those chips is bad or has a bad burn.  No way to tell unless you read the eproms and compare the checksums. 


And when you say the upper power supply is "new".  What does that mean?  Where did it come from and was it tested in another machine before it went into yours? 

[Calfdemon]

The upper power supply is new. I will replace the sound chips with the old ones. The ones that I now have in, are a different version than the ones that I took out. Would that have made a difference?

And upon reading this again, what do you mean different version?  There are 3 versions of Jackpot Party...  regular, Country Party, and Beach Party.  You cannot just change the sound eproms from one to another, they all have to be changed including XU2 and XU3, along with the graphic eproms on the dot display board.  You cannot mix and match eproms other than XU10 which should always be v5.14 (last version they came out with).


The rule to follow here is never break up a set of eproms and always run a complete set together.  If you have an eprom burner, than you should back up your eproms and save all of the files in its own directory so you know which ones go with which.  That way, if an eprom goes bad for some reason, you can always burn another one from that same set. But you can't just plug in an eprom from a different version of the game, even if it is the same game.  Williams made many versions of the same titles.  Some have different payouts, different jurisdiction settings, etc...  The checksums of each chip must be correct for that particular set or the whole thing wont work.

[ucanwin]

Thank you for the information. I admit I know very little about these machines.
Okay...so......the power supply is NOT new in this machine. As a matter of fact....it just totally died.
As you mentioned, my chips are all mixed up. Here is a rundown of what is currently in the machine:
Upper unit...
Dot XU4 4BA4 27C040 Checksum 05BD4BA4
Dot XU3 98FE 27C040 Checksum 039498FE
001 Dot XU10 V5.13 27C010 Checksum 00329BA3


CPU board....
075-XU17 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 08F42E00
075-XU18 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 091B3800
075-XU30 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 0B6C1600
075-XU31 V4.00 27C801 Checksum 08A44400
XU2 075--90-1000-5  WMS XU2 V5.01 7942 27C010 Checksum 00017942
XU3 075-G-503 ? Cannot read balance of label 27C010 Checksum 00CCB238

[Calfdemon]

There is no way for any of us to tell what eproms went together without having a copy of your actual set and being able to compare notes.  If you only changed out the 4 sound eproms, then put your original 4 back in and that should take care of your ROM SOUND error and put your back to DOT FAIL.  Do that first and update us on if that eliminates the new error.  If it does, your software should be back to working condition. 


Once you do that, then it is time to tackle the dot fail error and either replace your upper power supply, or do the ATX power supply fix that is outlined in the very first thread in this WMS forum.  Either way you go, that should take care of your DOT FAIL and get you back up and running.


If for some reason you cannot get your eproms back in order, then you may need an entire new set of eproms.  This would also require you to do a reset and you would need to become familiar with that procedure and have a reset eprom for the denomination your machine is set up for ($.25?).  But hopefully you have your eproms in order enough that you can just swap back in the original 4 that you took out.

[ucanwin]

Original eproms are back in place. Upper power supply has now gone out. I put the new power supply from my Big Bang Piggy Bankin' slot in it's place. Now, the Jackpot Party is once again coming up Dot Fail.

[Calfdemon]

Ok, so to make sure I understand, you put all of the original eproms back in place and the ROM SOUND error is gone (thats good). 


I am confused on the upper power supply from your BBPB.  According to your other thread, you were having an occasional dot fail error on BBPB as well.  Is this upper PS new since that problem?  And if so, does it work without any problems in your BBPB?


If the upper PS works in your BBPB without any problems and is not working in JPP, then the next step is to swap the display board and/or the DMD display with a known working one (from your BBPB) and see if we can get JPP to work with those.  We do those one at a time and we should be able to narrow down where the problem is and how to address it. 

[ucanwin]

It's the same power supply that was in my Big Bang Piggy Bankin' machine. It is new though, so why wouldn't it be good?
It is putting out over 13V DC.
The power supply info is as follows:
Switching Power Supply Model LIHUA-180 AC 110/220V +/- 15%
12V   15A
Still have DOT FAIL

[Calfdemon]

I don't mean to state the obvious, but just because something is "new", it does not mean that it works.  If that power supply was actually working in your BBPB machine and then you put it in your JPP machine and you still get the DOT FAIL, then I would think it might be something else.  But correct me if I am wrong..  You have another thread stating that you are getting a DOT FAIL in your BBPB machine as well, which is where this "new" power supply is coming from, right?   What is the common denominator here?  It would be that power supply more than likely.  And it should only be putting out 12v for the DMD displays.  If that supply is putting out over 13v, you may have some other issues at this point. 


Do you have a cheap ATX power supply sitting around?  If so, try wiring up a 12v supply from the ATX supply directly to the DMD display on either machine and see if that gets rid of your DOT FAIL.  At this point, you are getting the same error on both machines and the one part that is in common with both machines and their errors is that power supply that you keep swapping back and forth.  More than likely, that is the culprit.  You need to hook up a different power supply and see if you have the same problem.  You are definitely going to need at least 1 good upper power supply anyway, so maybe get one from one of the guys here on NLG that has parts for these machines (Fusco) and see if you can buy a known working, original, tested upper PS.  Once you get that, you can use that power supply to test on both machines and see if you still get the DOT FAIL.  My guess is at least one, if not both will go away.  It is not a waste of money because you will need that power supply anyway since you have one dead.  But you need to get your hands on a known good one that works in these machines from a trusted source so we can see for sure what the deal is.  If you get DOT FAIL errors when you are using a known working PS, then we can move on to either the Display board or the DMD itself.  But again, I am pretty sure based on what you are posting that it is that PS that is your problem.

[ucanwin]

I have someone locally that has repaired both, an original upper and a lower power supply of mine for me. I should be getting them back next week Tuesday. Then, I can see what happens.

[Calfdemon]

My suggestion was to get a power supply that is tested in another WMS 40X machine so we know for sure going in that it works with these machines.  Then we have a proven PS and we can eliminate it as the culprit.  Not doubting your local someone's abilities, but if he does not have a 40x machine to test it on (does he?) making it a known working unit prior to being hooked up to either of your machines that are showing DOT FAIL, how can we eliminate the repaired PS as the problem?  In a perfect world, the repaired PS comes back and the DOT FAIL goes away making this a moot point.  But if it does not go away, and it is not a known working (in a WMS 40x) unit, then we are still with the same "unknown" that we are dealing with now.


The cheap shortcut is to use an ATX computer power supply, even if temporarily, just to see if a clean 12v power supply will eliminate the DOT FAIL.  But lets try the repaired one next week and see if that fixes it.  If so, then all good and no need to worry about the rest of this.  I am only saying that if it doesn't, then we still cant be sure it isn't the power supply because it was not pulled from a current working machine eliminating that possibility.

[Calfdemon]

Any updates on your issue?

[ucanwin]

No change. Still waiting for the guy to drop off my 2 power supplies. Lots of reasons for not getting them to me. Grandson was in hospital, now has many service calls. Hopefully, I will get them this Wednesday. I really don't expect the issue to be gone though.
 
I do have a question.....What difference does an I/O board from a different jurisdiction make. There is a possibility that over the months swapping things between the two machines that I might have mixed I/O boards. I know one has the jumper on the 1st set of pins the other on the 2nd set.

[Calfdemon]

The I/O boards are all the same, however, you can have different jurisdiction settings on the board which can be changed.  The smart modification which has been done a lot is to replace the jurisdiction jumpers with dip switches so you can easily change jurisdictions if you need to.  Otherwise, you have to solder jumpers from one post to another to set the jurisdictions.  The jurisdictions only matter to the software you are running.  They made multiple versions of each game with different jurisdictions and different payout percentages.  I always try to get standard jurisdiction software so that I never have to change the jumper settings of my I/O boards when I swap games.  But I have various versions of each.  I tend to run all standard though, even if that means I have a lower payout percentage.  In home use, your don't notice the payout difference much, but changing the jurisdiction can be a pain on I/O boards that do not have dip switches installed.


Basically, if you look at the jumper setting, standard is having all of them open with nothing connecting.  New Jersey has a jumper at position 8.  Nevada has a jumper at positions 8 and 6.  Missouri is a jumper at 7,  France is at 8 and 7, and Delaware is at 6.  If you try to run software with the wrong jurisdiction setting, then you will get a JUR BAD error.   Normally that error will appear before you see a DOT FAIL, so if you are not getting it, your jumper settings are probably correct for the software you have in the machine. 

[dale]

Actually these lower percentage chips are very noticeable in the Bonus Rounds. Try running a 90% Jackpot Stampede Deluxe and you will almost never hit a CASH COW higher then 5, when a 97 or 96 gives you plenty of 100 hits. . A Big Bang Piggy Bankin  90% chip also gives out terrible bonus rounds compared to the 97%. That's where the % is built in these because there are no virtual spots on the reels. You have 22X22X22 not 526X526X526...…..You can't add a few blanks or bars and alter the % in the WMS 400 reel portion.

[Calfdemon]

Actually these lower percentage chips are very noticeable in the Bonus Rounds. Try running a 90% Jackpot Stampede Deluxe and you will almost never hit a CASH COW higher then 5, when a 97 or 96 gives you plenty of 100 hits. . A Big Bang Piggy Bankin  90% chip also gives out terrible bonus rounds compared to the 97%. That's where the % is built in these because there are no virtual spots on the reels. You have 22X22X22 not 526X526X526...…..You can't add a few blanks or bars and alter the % in the WMS 400 reel portion.

Thanks Dale, I never thought of it that way and I see what you mean.  I will have to try a couple of different percentage versions of the same game so I can see that.  I have noticed that on the version of Winning Streak that I am running, I pretty much NEVER get a winning streak of over 500 coins and have never seen the triple 7's on it at all.  And the default for getting a high score up is 9999 coins, so I know it must be possible.   I have to assume it is the percentage I am running (not even sure what it is right now).  But what you are saying makes perfect sense due to the wheel stops these games have.  I may have to consider actually running some higher percentage games and just use them on an I/O with dip switches to make the jurisdiction settings easy to change.  I know at least 3 or 4 of my machines have dip switches installed.