Bally 1090 - 3 Newbie questions - Please Help

[bryanbph]

I'm a pinball/arcade guy with good skills on repairing/maintaining them, so I thought I'd give slot machines a try.  I quickly realized I'm a newbie and have no idea what I'm doing - I thought I obtained two machines of the same type - however I discovered that one of my slots is an EM version, and the other is a solid state version.  I was hoping they were the same so I could use two machines, swap some parts, troubleshoot, and at least get one of them working.  So here are my questions:


1 - Looks like the 1090-E is pretty easy to figure out what it is - I've been able to find a couple of very basic manuals, which haven't really helped much, but it's better than nothing.  However, what is the significance of the 1090-2751?  Seems like there are a lot of 1090-xxxx models out there - Are they all the same, just maybe different branding/payout or is it something more than that?  Just trying to get the basics of understanding exactly what I have now.


2 - The 1090-E powers on, and the bell rings non-stop (so I disconnected it while I troubleshoot), and it lights up, I can see a solenoid back behind the handle mechanism that is getting activated (seems like it might be locked on) - the numeric digital display on the front is a bit scrambled, but I can make out a 6 on it - I just power it off to avoid any damage


3 - The 1090-2751 powers on, and lights up - Tilt light comes on, but I can make it go off by closing the door.  Digital display shows all 0s but nothing works (I can see the coin drop solenoid engage, but can't get anything else working). 


I've done the basic fuse checks, visual inspections and such, but really don't know where to start with these machines (Google has been very little help).  Can someone point me into a good starting point (appropriate threads for 1090 machines, good repair manuals, schematics, troubleshooting guides, etc). 


Thanks in advance.

[slcjeeper]

In reading the description #2 and #3 of your problems, do both machines have a digital display in the top right corner of the door?

[bryanbph]

In reading the description #2 and #3 of your problems, do both machines have a digital display in the top right corner of the door?

Yes, both machines have the digital display.  The 1090 shows all 0's when I power it on, the E-1090 flickers and I can read a 6 on the display.

[slcjeeper]

Can you post pictures of  the insides? Having digital displays is an indicator that they are BOTH E-series machines. What the game is now isn't always what the game began life as.

[bryanbph]

Can you post pictures of  the insides? Having digital displays is an indicator that they are BOTH E-series machines. What the game is now isn't always what the game began life as.

Yeah, I was surprised the 1090-2751 had the digital display since it appears to be an EM.  Here are pictures of both.  the 1090-E has the circuit boards, the 1090-2751 does not have any circuit boards.

[bryanbph]

Can you post pictures of  the insides? Having digital displays is an indicator that they are BOTH E-series machines. What the game is now isn't always what the game began life as.

Yeah, I was surprised the 1090-2751 had the digital display since it appears to be an EM.  Here are pictures of both.  the 1090-E has the circuit boards, the 1090-2751 does not have any circuit boards.

Also, for what it's worth, on the 1090-E with the hopper/reels removed, when I power it on, this solenoid engages and stays locked on - something tells me it's not supposed to do that.  Not sure if that helps provide any insight as to what is going on with it or not.....

[slcjeeper]

I'm going to mention a lot of things here, but this is where I would start, especially on a machine that the history is unknown. On the 1090-E with the circuit boards, I would start by checking the power supply voltages at the +5, ZC, and UR (unregulated). The power supply is mounted down below on the back wall. You should measure something roughly close to +5, +7.5 ZC, and +10 UR, all VDC. Also pull the power supply board out and with a magnifying glass, check all of the solder joints. They crack from heat and begin to flake. Reflow solder if needed. The biggest problems with these machines are dirty pins and connectors. If you don't do anything else, at least clean all the pins and connectors!  If you see any that are darkened or burnt, you definitely have a problem. The error 6 is most likely a voltage problem. Once you're sure of the voltages from the power supply, check the voltages at the MPU and I/O board testpoints. They should measure just below what you measured at the UR power supply test point. If there is excessive drop, find the problem. Most likely dirty pins. If you have a pin extractor, pull every J connector and one by one pull each pin, (yes, I know. there are a lot of them). Make sure each connector is complete. Sometimes they are broken or don't have enough spring in them to push on the inserted pin. Carefully slightly bend them apart and after cleaning, reinsert. Again, look at each one closely and clean. Check the battery on the RAM board. The RAM board is the piggyback board on the MPU mounted on the left inside the machine. If the battery is dead or leaking, It needs to be replaced. Check all the pins on the RAM board for cracks, etc. After you get through that, let us know how the machine responds. You'll most likely need a RAM clear as well.

[slcjeeper]

When working properly, that solenoid acts as an open door buzzer. It will typically buzz for 5 seconds or so and repeat after a short period as long as the door remains open. BTW, Gorgar is my favorite PB!

[slcjeeper]

What does it look like behind the glass of the tall 1090?

[bryanbph]

What does it look like behind the glass of the tall 1090?

Hey @slcjeeper - thanks for taking time and offering to help me.  I'll follow your advice when I get some time one night this week or over the weekend and report back what I find.  I did visually look at the connectors / pins and didn't see anything unusual, but I've not yet tested voltage and such, so this will help get me started in tracking down my issue.


I've attached a picture of the 1090-2751 behind the glass.  More components there that the 1090-E doesn't have.  Not sure where to start on this machine to troubleshoot, so if you have any thoughts, I'd appreciate it as well.  I see a cut wire (you'll see it in the pic), but I've concluded that used to connect to a light that is missing from the game, so I don't imagine it would cause any of my issues.


PS - yeah, Gorgar is great.  I remember as a kid when that game arrived in the arcade.  First talking pinball machine with a rudimentary seven word vocabulary "Me Got You"  - was mind blowing at the time.  Still a challenging pin to play.  I have a black knight sitting next to it :-)


Thanks again for your help.