742A Money Honey find.

[jimliner]

Hi,
    Picked up a 742A Money Honey from a retired / downsizing sale for a couple hundred dollars.  When I went to look I wasn't sure I wanted.  Did not power on and award glass was a plexi repro.  I am guessing reel glass is too.   The inside cabinet and components were all there and in really good shape.   Owner had used in ~ 15-20 years.  No key, door locked but door was open.   My guess the belly glass was just some belly casino glass.   I looked up the reel numbers on Bally tables.  They match 742A - 385 for Showboat which is belly glass.  The schematic is W-1046-874, which I don't have.  Almost think it was a kit machine.   Or put in a better cabinet.   It was done cleanly if true.   

Jim

[jimliner]

Hi,

 One correction.... it had not been used in 15-20 yrs.
     Here are a few more pictures.

     Power problem was just resetting timer by pushing bar towards back of cab.   Actually I did it with finger.  Not sure bar travel was enough.   It clicked when I used my finger. 
      Adjusted lever stop bracket, part J, to factory measurement.  Lever pull, really the reel drivers and levers need dry grease removal. 
   Checked many pays, most are good.  Not sure of pay disc on hopper, -144.  Need to clean reel contacts.  Old style hopper with golf ball. 
  Changed out lock with spare on hand. 

Jim

[wolftalk]

nice to see people making use of the bally docs!

the game wiring is probably pretty close to the 742A-92(T) if you ignore the tower light stuff.

docs say the original pay disc was m-245-96, a -144 works as long as the 23 wire (probably) is connected to either of the below:
- 20, 40 and 50 traces all wired together
- 40/50 and 50 traces wired together

below is a picture showing the trace pattern of a -144, so for people learning how the machines work, see if ya can figure out how/why the -144 works for the pays the game needs.

[SeaBiscuit]

Looks identical to the Money Honey in Chicago west burbs. Older gentleman had a couple others if I'm not mistaken including an E-series 5 coin. Nice get for a couple hundred! I think he was initially asking $550.

[jimliner]

Yes. That would be the one.  Still some work to do. 

[SeaBiscuit]

It's looking great so far. Wish I could have beat you to it!

[jimliner]

Wolftalk, you ask why this pay board works if the 20, 40 and 50 tabs are tied.
   I think it is because of the little tabs or steps that are on the 40 and 50 traces.  They allow the fingers to transition from 20 to 40 and 40 to 50 with less than one step or move of the fingers.  So the fingers go from one hot trace to the next.

In my case I think just the 40 and 50 are tied.  I get a 20 pay out for melons.  So 20 is not tied in with the others. 

Thanks for pointing out.   I didn't know.  (That's if I am correct)

Jim

[wolftalk]

yep!

I didn't see the melon pay on the top sign, so using the 20 trace to get the wipers to the 40 and 50 trace won't work - at least not without a diode to allow the trace to be shared.

using outboard carriage wipers has another gotcha - the carriage movement is not precise enough to make accurate payouts.  Instead, the carriage wipers are used to get the main wipers reliably onto a useful trace - often the C.O. (carry over) trace, then the main wipers can accurately end the payout on the correct coin.

to nullify the slop in the outbooard carriage wiper position, the carriage wipers leave their trace many steps before the payout amount.   

[jimliner]

I checked all the pays. 
Single cherry good, 2 coins.
Two cherries good, 5.
Oranges w or wo bar good, 10.
Plums w or wo bar good, 14.
Bells w or wo bar good, 18.
Melons little sporadic, 20.  Once it pays future hits pay.
Stars little sporadic, 50.  Once it pays future hits pay.
Bars good, 100.
3 money honey on center doesn't pay, 200.
3 money honey off center pays 18.  Except if reel 2 money honey is on center line.  Other two off line.
Cleaning the reel pay board contacts.
I figured I would start tracing out a win that consistently pays out, like 3 Bars.   Then tackle the 3 money honey on center line. 

[SeaBiscuit]

It's good to watch the progress on the Money Honey! I wound up buying the big Bally 1114, and the little red Harold's Club Pace/Ace/Space that the gentleman had. While I was there I also repaired and tuned his repo war eagle. Super interesting guy. Both of these machines appeared to not have been played in decades, and were a little jumbled.

[jimliner]

Congrats on picking up the 2 machines.  The 1114 appeared in good shape from the outside.   I am not familiar with mechanicals.  Dave is  definitely and interesting guy.   He crashed a plane and walked away.   I hope he showed you the relays for his house lites and phone system. My son and I moved a couple machines from one spot to another for him.   My guess is the 1114 is as clean inside as the 742A. 

Jim

[SeaBiscuit]

Ha! Yes, he sure is an interesting guy, and he recounted the plane crash incident from start to finish. All told, I was there over 4 hours, and thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. The house/light wiring is waaay beyond me. I was trying to explain it to my daughter, but was at a loss for words.
Yes, the 1114 is very clean as well, although, as I am certain your 742A was, the grease and lube had all turned into peanut butter. There were some jumbled leaf switches, which, thanks to several folks here, (wolftalk), I have been able to sort out. I've got a pretty eclectic collection, but it's fun sorting it out.
- Craig

[wolftalk]

short payouts are often caused by cruddy traces on the payout counter unit. 

some wins not detecting (but others work) can be payout counter traces or reel wiper boards.

any not-too-abrasive scrub pad with some isopropyl alcohol will clean the black crud off the traces/rivets on the reel wiper boards.

bally docs have flip-flopped on lubrication on the rivets/contact plate.  If you use anything, you want something that won't gum up.  I usually use nu-trol 401B contact cleaner/lube where the lube is just a pure mineral oil (iir from the MSDS).  I've been trying similar 404B with added silicone, but ya generally don't know for years if it's going to crud up :-)

     

[jimliner]

Note: There's always a but.....

Thank you Wolf.
I had already cleaned up pay disc on hopper.  So I set up a 2 cherry win with an orange on 3rd reel, to get reel pay fingers furthest from front knowing money honey is towards the front.  Pull reel mech.  Used scotch brite pad (cut small pieces, used the smaller of two) gently over contact buttons.  Then used long stick q-tips with tip wet with contact cleaner to go over all contacts. 
Money Honey on center line pays, and off center line pay too.   
But..... timer expires before 200 dispenses.  Only by 20 ish coins.   Could be quarters aren't churned into their feeding spiral in hopper.  I was just above 200 in hopper added some more. 

I was kind of looking forward to tracing out reel boards.  Had my blank sheets ready to fill out.  Of my nine Bally EM's I haven't had the need. 

Thanks.
Jim

[wolftalk]

afaik, the safety timer motor on the 742A's just runs continuously when the hopper motor is running.

if you are getting shutdown of the machine before a payout completes and it's not caused by insufficient coins (it shuts down while there's a steady stream of coins ejecting), all you can do is adjust the bar/cam on top of the timer unit to increase the timeout period.

there was a retrofit kit to add the safety delay relay stuff to the older games.  If you had that tho and it wasn't working right, shutdown would happen a lot sooner.

if you do document the reel wiper boards, I'd be curious to see the result.  It's probably similar to the 742A-1J and the reel wiper diagram for that is on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/