Madhine ID Plate

[off-track]

I don't want to hijack another current thread but have a (silly?) question.

I have a 873 that looks identical to the picture posted in the other thread showing just a sticker remnant and four rivets.
Sorry, haven't figured out how to link other threads in this forum yet..

From the followup post of the torn tag it appears that they were commonly removed.  Why is that?  Was that supposed to make the machine unusable in a legal casino?

[rokgpsman]

Just a guess,,,,,

There may be other reasons to remove an id plate, but in some places in the US it is/was illegal to privately own a slot machine unless it is older than a certain number of years, like older than 50 years, etc. So some owners removed the id plate to make it difficult for anyone to easily prove the machines age. I think New York was one of the places that had a strong enforcement at one time of laws like this, so owners would do this to help reduce the chance of having a problem.

I don't think the id plate was removed due to any casino reasons. Also, a legal casino wouldn't take the chance of using any kind of machine that was not approved by their gaming commission or regulators. They wouldn't want to lose their gambling license, wouldn't be worth it, that license is golden.

This may be the other thread you are referring to, it discusses a machine id plate that is missing:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=10651.msg57711#msg57711

[off-track]

Could make sense?  Mine was one of the states that wouldn't even allow pinballs to award free games as that was considered gambling.  Heck, it's just barely legal now! 

Ignore that S+ on the other side of the room.      

[rokgpsman]

Nowadays there are a lot of states that have casino gambling so the laws on private ownership are changing. But not long ago most US states did not allow any form of gambling, owning a slot machine was forbidden and in some places they would seize any slot machine they found or was reported, even in a private home. The law was on the books and a lot of District Attorneys liked to look like they were anti-crime and pro-law&order to the voters.

That machine in the other thread was called an Easy Aces or Big Apple, and you know the phrase Big Apple is the nickname for New York City. So that machine may have been in a NYC club at one time and then sold to a private owner that was worried enough to remove the id plate. I think New York still requires privately owned slot machines to be 30 years or older, and in neighboring New Jersey the machines have to have been made in 1941 or earlier. That's crazy, but those laws were passed back when organized crime or the syndicate really was a problem.

[off-track]

Yeah, typically hypocritical legislation.  Wisconsin is >25yrs. But... just ignore the Indian casinos everywhere!  Local DA's still take delight in busting the bars every few months.  Never mind the fact that 90%+ of them have 5+ Cherry Masters right in plain view.  Yeah, amusement, sure...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_state_slot_machine_ownership_regulations

[rokgpsman]

The states are ok with the slot machines in casinos because the state gets a big check every month from every casino, the check contains the state's cut of the operations, as per the state law.   

[rokgpsman]

When I lived in Kansas they had laws against gambling, but many bars had those Cherry Master or similar machines. They were legally allowed due to a loophole in the law, being classified as an arcade machine instead of a gambling machine. The machines didn't pay you money if you won. You won a ticket or tickets that you could then redeem for a prize, like a pack of gum or pack of cigarettes or maybe Linda Ann over there at the end of the bar. It was similar to the arcade places where kids play and win tickets they can then redeem for prizes.

Some bars owners or bartenders would buy the prize back from you and pay you real money, which probably wasn't legal but it went on and they had a steady customer base.

When I was a youngster I remember going to a truck stop with my uncle. They had a couple of pinball machines in there. If you racked up some winning games on the machine you could call over the guy behind the counter, he'd come over and pay you for each game you had won, then he'd click off the games with a switch behind the score head.
 

[rdaniel]

I have to laugh at the state laws which limit slot machine ownership to 25 years or older. What is the difference between a 1975 Bally slot machine and say a 2008 Bally reel machine? Other than the sophisticated electronics, absolutely nothing! They both do the same thing: take your money and pay some back. The logic there escapes me.


State legislators never fail to amaze me with their stupidity!

[rokgpsman]

Hard to know what politicians are thinking a lot of times. But I'd guess that they are trying to accommodate and allow for the thousands of legitimate hobby and private collectors of these old machines, classified as an antique device. The states already have gambling laws that they can enforce against any private person or non-authorized business that has a slot machine being used for gambling purposes, no matter if the machine is old or new. So by allowing ownership of a machine older than a certain age they say you can own it as a collector/hobby, but don't use it for gambling purposes or we will take it. And they don't allow the same legal reasoning for newer machines because by definition a collectible antique has to be old.

 

[rdaniel]

Well OK that logic seems reasonable. However, believe that it has more to do with some vague moral issue, where gambling is inherently bad.


Look at the states with no limits on slots, such as Arizona or Rhode Island. We do not hear much about illegal gambling going on. I can purchase an "illegal" slot in Arizona (no questions asked) and bring it into California.


If you look on Craigslist in the 25 year states (such as California) you will find many so called "illegal" slots for sale. I believe that law enforcement has better things to do with their limited resources than bust someone for a illegal slot which is being used in their home.


Can you recall any recent news articles where law enforcement busted someone for home use of an illegal slot? I cannot. So why have a law on the books which will not be enforced?

I guess the smart thing to do is just keep quiet about "illegal" slots and nothing will happen.

[Jon]

I'm in Northern California and I cannot ever recall seeing someone busted for an illegal machine if you go on Craigslist you play hell trying to find a legal one but a friend of mine in Australia shared this with me

http://www.portpirierecorder.com.au/story/2439441/caught-with-an-illegal-poker-machine/

[rokgpsman]

Do you mean like this in California?:
http://abc7.com/news/santa-ana-police-seize-illegal-slot-machines-/271623/

or this in Maryland?:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/amid-pr-georges-casino-debate-a-crackdown-on-illegal-slot-machines/2012/03/15/gIQALLrTQS_story.html

or this in California?:
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/crime/article54422075.html

or this in Texas?
http://kxan.com/investigative-story/undercover-investigation-exposes-illegal-gambling-in-central-texas/

or this in Alabama?:
http://wiat.com/2015/06/25/13-illegal-slot-machines-seized/

or this in S. Dakota?:
http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/local/state-agency-hits-jackpot-with-seizure-of-illegal-slots/article_2f2ef3ca-34c3-59ac-91b8-eae6ab396d5b.html

Quote from this last news story by the local authorities:
"Possession of an unlicensed slot machine is a misdemeanor, but Eliason said the Gaming Commission, “has no interest in pursuing criminal charges against these individuals.” He did say confiscation of illegal slot machines is more common than generally believed.

“In the past 60 days I’ve personally confiscated 26 illegal slot machines in Hughes County and the Sully County Sheriff’s Office has confiscated two more,” Eliason said from his Pierre offices. “In my case, I convinced the guy selling them to meet me at the city refuse site in Pierre and we watched as a city dozer crushed them with its blade. They met their demise at the front end of a D-9 Cat.”

Don't be naive to think illegal machines are not busted all the time. That last story in particular deals with private owned machines, sold on craigslist to other private buyers.  No police in any state just goes around looking for illegal machines in private homes. That's not the focus. In some places the police and DA office take more interest than other places. But set up a machine (any age, old or new) for gambling purposes in your house, have people coming in to play for money, see how long it takes to get a visit from law enforcement. Or openly list it for sale on social media, newspaper, etc and take a chance on getting someone's attention that wants to enforce the law. Or try to buy a machine from a legit business slot machine reseller and have them ship it to you where it is illegal - they won't do it. The state does not like gambling unless they authorize it and get a cut of the action. That's the big reason behind the law, plus they don't like the negative aspects that often go along with gambling like increased crime. I don't think the moral issue has as much to do with it nowadays, if it did the same legislators would not allow liquor to be sold, or cigarettes, adult stores, etc. Gambling is not the vice it once was, a large number of states have casino or racetrack gambling permitted by the state.

We've gotten off-topic for this thread, if you want to continue this discussion we should probably move it to this General ChitChat & BS forum:

http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?board=17.0

[OldReno]

As I recall, when we would trash a machine (working on refurbishing companies and rebuilds) we were required to send the tags into the state gaming control office.  Now, if one were to call a machine as taken to the dumps or whatever, and the tag was returned to gaming, then that machine no longer existed.  But if it still did exist, welllllll, you could probably sell it in the underground, you know what I mean?
Hint hint, nudge nudge....

[OldReno]

Eventually some jursdictions however, required the operator/seller/refurbisher to engrave the serial number of the machine onto the base of the cabinet to prevent the above from happening.  One way to get around the 'missing tag' syndrome.
But, again, a grinder could always remove that number, eh?

[off-track]

We've gotten off-topic for this thread, if you want to continue this discussion we should probably move it to this General ChitChat & BS forum:

Not at all.  I started the thread and I think the discussion relates to my original question (if somewhat obtuse).   

[Jon]

if you post some pictures of your machine maybe I have an ID tag for that model I scrapped a lot of machines last year and I don't live in Nevada I don't have to turn the tags in they'd be pissed if they knew all the machines came from the navada. Hehe

[DavidLee]

Maybe that's why I saw this machine without a tag on it awhile back. Jon that wasn't me looking for a tag, it must of been another DavidLee ;-0. A while back one of the local lodges here is town got busted for having a private room with 8 machines. I was shocked to hear that gambling was going on. At least all proceeds were going to a good cause.

[Jon]

well that's not good David I cannot figure out who needs that Id plate I hate messing up like that

I guess it doesn't really matter I wasn't charging for it anyway maybe they'll see this and key in and remind me it was them send me a personal message so it's in my inbox

[off-track]

if you post some pictures of your machine maybe I have an ID tag for that model I scrapped a lot of machines last year and I don't live in Nevada I don't have to turn the tags in they'd be pissed if they knew all the machines came from the navada. Hehe

Not sure of the name but, it is a $0.05 873 five line just like the one that Nurbo is refurbishing in the top sticky
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/index.php?topic=7510.0

[jimliner]

Hey, nice machine.  Heres my 873.   Needs a 873-A tag. 

Off Track, theres a nice topper in classifies that looks to be for your 873.  My jackpot is $100.  Your glass shows $150, matching topper in add.  Mark is a good guy to buy from.   Actually everones been great.