GAME DISABLED - COIN REVERSE...cash box? coin comparitor? karma?

[Badbaud]

Some games use a "vend" signal coming out of the coin comparator to enable the optic board to allow the coin to be accepted by the optic board.

Maybe your comparator is not sending out this signal?

[shortrackskater]

I'm trying to read as much as possible on the CC for this Bally, so I don't ask "stupid questions." 
But my reading is just bringing up more questions...
I just found a pdf file on all the peripherals on my EVO. It look like I should be using a CC 62, that uses the optics circuit below it. The machine will then accept the coin once both signals are detected...right?
Well mine has a CC16D (4b) and worked before and I don't know why. The only thing I did was re-seating the IC in the optics board because pin 10 was bent out and touching the pin above it. It almost looked intentional, but I straightened it out and reseated the chip.
I haven't been home yet to test my old optics board (see my previous post here) the way I tested the replacement.
Can anyone with an EVO tell me what model CC is in theirs?
I need to look for a schematic for the optic board just to rule out pin 10 wasn't intentionally bent out to somehow disable or "fool" the MPU to thinking it got both signals.

[CVslots]

Man...slot machine repair is NOT instant!!! you need to settle down!!! It's just a box of parts, that's why you got it for <$200???  Don't stress the little shit!!! Please tell me you installed the optics?

[shortrackskater]

Man...slot machine repair is NOT instant!!! you need to settle down!!! It's just a box of parts, that's why you got it for <$200? ??  Don't stress the little shit!!! Please tell me you installed the optics?

Actually I got it for $100! 
I'll return with replies... gotta work today.
I'm not really that stressed. I just like the little head banging wall icon!

[shortrackskater]

Ok I took away the head banging guy... I'm not stressed... just trying to reason on this logically: It did work as it stands at one time, taking nickles.
This started slowly... it would register most nickles... then that weird "coin reverse" error started and it stopped taking coins all together.
"We" determined it was likely the optic board. Also, when I ran the machine with the CC and optics board disconnected, it worked fine... no "reverse coin" error at all.
As for the optics connected... well yes... the board is plugged in, the CC is plugged in. Still not working, but as I said earlier... I pulled out the CC and dropped a coin through the guide and the new "COIN MECH" error message popped up. This is telling me the optics board IS working, I believe. So I'm still happily and non-stressfully  holding on comments on my last two posts... on that bent pin and on the CC model for the Evo. 
I read the comments from Buzz... I don't want to be one of those kind of people! 

[shortrackskater]

I just found a pdf file on all the peripherals on my EVO. It look like I should be using a CC 62, that uses the optics circuit below it. The machine will then accept the coin once both signals are detected...right?
Well mine has a CC16D (4b) and worked before and I don't know why. The only thing I did was re-seating the IC in the optics board because pin 10 was bent out and touching the pin above it. It almost looked intentional, but I straightened it out and reseated the chip.
I haven't been home yet to test my old optics board (see my previous post here) the way I tested the replacement.
Can anyone with an EVO tell me what model CC is in theirs?
I need to look for a schematic for the optic board just to rule out pin 10 wasn't intentionally bent out to somehow disable or "fool" the MPU to thinking it got both signals.

THIS IS IN NO WAY, A RANT!
Honestly -  I've looked for these answers and can't find much. Either I'm just dumb or it's difficult to find coin comparitor information specific to the Bally model I have.  I've seen the lists on NLG but couldn't find the difference between some CC's. I'm not a slot tech. I don't do this for a living. I do try and help others here with what I know and what I've learned.
Okay back to the CC stuff...there may be more information out here, but it's getting harder to find...the needles are there but the haystacks are getting larger. 
If anyone knows about the CC types I listed and are used in the EVO, please let me know. I've basically shotgunned parts to get this machine working. I'd love more info on the CC where I quoted my own question from July 7. I couldn't find a CC16 from my favorite vender here... you know who you are...  ... so I found one on Ebay. It's on the way and I hope it solves my coin-in problem.

[Badbaud]

Here is a chart someone posted a while ago.

[shortrackskater]

Thanks! 
I actually saw that one a while back during my search. I still am trying to find one that shows the designation past the number...
Mine is a CC-16D 4B and I'd like to know what the D and the 4B are for. I'm guessing different voltages and inhibit or not. But it's hard to find a chart that shows the information. I saw some listings on ebay that do show this. Maybe if I keep going on ebay often enough, I'll get them all.
My replacement CC will be here today so I hope soon I'll find out if that solves the problem. Then it's on to an interesting touch screen issue.

[shortrackskater]

The coin comparator came in. I installed it and got a working coin-in machine again. However after 5 or so coins in, I got "coin drop" and "reverse coin" error. I adjusted the sensitivity pot all the way left and it started working again.
But after the 7th or so coin, I got "reverse coin" error again!
I pulled out the CC and just cleaned where the coin goes and cleaned the sensitivity pot with contact cleaner.
It seems to be working now but I'm afraid to try a multiple coin insert again!
I've never seen such a temperamental machine as this one... you'd think these issues wouldn't all be intermittent like this. There's nothing left to replace here unless the coin comparator has any other adjustment that I'm missing.

[cowboygames]

I've removed the thumb screw at the top of the comparitor before because of was having an adverse effect on coin drop speed

[shortrackskater]

Just unscrew it completely? Is it some kind of regulator?

[cowboygames]

Counterweight for that arm, I've had it work worse before too so don't throw it away

[Badbaud]

Just unscrew it completely? Is it some kind of regulator?

It was used to slow down the rate that coins could be dropped through.

Preventing cheaters from dropping coin-slug-coin quickly and getting a credit for the slug.

But it could also be the coil with rake on the back is slow and catching coins.

You could try wedging the rake open with a piece of folded paper or cardboard but be careful not to drop more then max coin in per game as the optics will see it as an extra coin and give you a tilt.

[shortrackskater]

Just unscrew it completely? Is it some kind of regulator?

It was used to slow down the rate that coins could be dropped through.

Preventing cheaters from dropping coin-slug-coin quickly and getting a credit for the slug.

But it could also be the coil with rake on the back is slow and catching coins.

You could try wedging the rake open with a piece of folded paper or cardboard but be careful not to drop more then max coin in per game as the optics will see it as an extra coin and give you a tilt.

Thanks Badbaud... It seems to be fine now. I've inserted 27 coins twice and got no error... I did notice the little locknut that keeps the sample coin track in place was backed out. I don't know if that would cause any problem...vibration maybe? I snugged it up.
I almost want to swap out the CC's with my old one just to confirm this was my problem. I'm 99.9% percent sure it was. This Bally EVO will take more than the max coin-in amount. It just keeps crediting. I think that's normal for the machine. I've done so much work to get this running and I'd like to really confirm what problems I had with this topic... BUT maybe I better leave well enough alone for now. I mean... if it's not broke... !! 
I guess the one other thing I'm curious about is the width of the optics opening just after the CC. I've swapped this out but the opening of the new one was the same as the old... it's a nickle machine but the opening would allow a 50 cent piece to pass through. But, like I said... it's seems to be fine now and I've played about 100 coins through w/o errors.

[Badbaud]

I think quarter and nickle had the same opening while 50 cent and dollar had a wider one.

Some people wedge a sliver of plastic inside the gap to prevent the coin from missing one of the optics but removing the slow down arm may have caused the coin to take a more direct path to the optics.

You may still get an error or two with to wide of an opening.

[shortrackskater]

I didn't remove the arm! Just really cranked the sensitivity control all the way left. I'll go test the width... and maybe stick in the old CC and just see what happens. I'm curious.

[Emt232004]

Glad you got the CC today and seem to be having better luck with it over your original.

[shortrackskater]

Glad you got the CC today and seem to be having better luck with it over your original.

Yes the old CC definitely was bad. Thank you for the great service. 
I did end up putting the old CC back in just to make sure it was bad -  and it will not accept any coins whatsoever.
But I was still getting an occasional "coin jam" or "reverse coin" error. They would always clear when I opened the door though.
I just spend the last hour and a half with the machine trying to determine why I'm getting errors. I removed that "slow down" arm and got no change. I removed the coin head and cleaned the small chute just past the head. It had some corrosion in it. That didn't make any difference. I removed the optics board and made sure things were clean there. I put some tape on the top of the guide which should have directed the nickle more toward the optics - that didn't do it,  but maybe there is a smaller one available? I'm still not sure of the width of the one that's standard for a 5 cent machine.
If I load coins slow and steady, it seems to be fine. Maybe this is just how they are? But none of my IGT's do this at all. I can speed load coins and have never had an error.
I'll keep checking here for any ideas.

[shortrackskater]

Ok a few PM's now and I have an answer that had been discussed before, and that was the size of the optics guide just past the coin comparator.
I replaced mine and still had the problem, after replacing the CC, which was definitely bad.
My replacement guide is the same size as my other one, which would allow a 50 cent piece to pass through. Tjlee had a similar problem with his IGT and just shimmed it, and Badbaud said the same thing. I'll rig up a shim and see if I get a more consistently working machine.
And maybe sometime there will be someone here who has a nickel Bally with an optics board, who will measure the opening and post it. 


UPDATE:
I added a plastic shim inside the optics guide. Same thing: it would still would work for a few coins... then if I "rapid fed" them, I'd get an error or a jam. When it jammed I opened the door and saw the jam was at the point where they drop into the optics guide. I gently pulled and pushed the inner door panel out and in the the coins fell through. I looked around and spotted two phillips head screws that attach the panel to the right side and they were both loose! I thought I had looked over everything when I bought this machine but I guess I overlooked those. Tightened them up and I haven't had ANY jam or error since. It still will drop through a nickel from time to time but maybe my "new" comparator is the cause?
My guess is that I had an alignment issue here along with combination of other things like the bad CC that was in it. Still have no clue if the guide is correct or not but I should now take the shim back out and see if it still works. I get the strangest combinations of problems in the slots I buy but I think this problem is resolved. Knock on wood! Now I need to figure out how to program my top progressive box.

[shortrackskater]

I took the shim out of the guide. Played and it worked but still kept missing coins from time to time. Tried again today and the same damn thing happened from a couple weeks ago. It accepted less and less coins. I'd put in 10 and 6 would be rejected. Put the old CC back in again and none were accepted.
SO... I'm 99.9% sure that this new used CC is failing. I really haven't troubleshooted a coin comparator before but I put a piece of plastic and wedged the rake open. It takes coin after coin now... no jams, no returns, no "coin reverse" error, no "coin jam" error.  Got one "coin mech diverter failure" so I re-shimmed the plastic further in to open the rake all the way. Back to taking coin after coin.
Is this a definitive way to determine it's absolutely the CC? I'd think so.
Do these go out often or did I just get the luck of 2 bad CC's?  I have a CC-16D 4B.
I hope someone replies since this really isn't a specific EVO issue anymore... ha ha