Ceronix 1492 Troubleshooting Help

[Todbedy]

Hello,

I have a Ceronix 1492 monitor out of a Players Edge Poker machine. The game plays as it should but no display. I’ve ordered in a cap kit for the monitor but in the meantime would like to do some testing to see what the underlying issue might be. I’ve tested the fuse and it’s good, I’ve also checked at the connector that there is power going to the monitor.

Any recommendations on where to start?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Chris-socal]

Hello:  Welcome to NLG. Glad to have you here, we can certainly help you with this.

I work on Ceronix 1492 boards almost every day so I am very familiar with them.
The first question I have is what is your level of knowledge working with monitors, safety wise, etc?
I recently started a series of videos on Youtube doing an overview of the 1492 (which includes 1490) and the layout of the board. The first overview video is live and the first of two repairing an actual board. I also posted one recently for another member who wanted to see how to pull and swap the board. I am not a professional. LOL

I have a basic "checkup" I do on every board before I power it up, if you can tell me how it died I might be able to narrow a few things down for you.
1. Depending on date of manufacture, caps are highly suspect. However, only two on the board are likely to cause complete shut down. Having said that, some of the earlier boards have original caps that seem to last forever.
2. Are you getting any chirping from the board?  You might have to listen very closely, sometimes it sounds like little puffs of air...sometimes fast sometimes slow and steady. This tells us a story.
3. If completely dead, it could be flyback. In which case you might as well buy a working board. Flybacks are not available, or rarely. 

There are a few members and supporting shops you can send your board to and we can look at it. Feel free to send me a PM,  I am happy to look at a board and cap it for you if the flyback isn't dead.

Chris

[shortrackskater]

Subject moved to LCD and CRT tech support.  

[Todbedy]

Hello:  Welcome to NLG. Glad to have you here, we can certainly help you with this.

I work on Ceronix 1492 boards almost every day so I am very familiar with them.
The first question I have is what is your level of knowledge working with monitors, safety wise, etc?
I recently started a series of videos on Youtube doing an overview of the 1492 (which includes 1490) and the layout of the board. The first overview video is live and the first of two repairing an actual board. I also posted one recently for another member who wanted to see how to pull and swap the board. I am not a professional. LOL

I have a basic "checkup" I do on every board before I power it up, if you can tell me how it died I might be able to narrow a few things down for you.
1. Depending on date of manufacture, caps are highly suspect. However, only two on the board are likely to cause complete shut down. Having said that, some of the earlier boards have original caps that seem to last forever.
2. Are you getting any chirping from the board?  You might have to listen very closely, sometimes it sounds like little puffs of air...sometimes fast sometimes slow and steady. This tells us a story.
3. If completely dead, it could be flyback. In which case you might as well buy a working board. Flybacks are not available, or rarely. 

There are a few members and supporting shops you can send your board to and we can look at it. Feel free to send me a PM,  I am happy to look at a board and cap it for you if the flyback isn't dead.

Chris

Hi Chris and thank you so much for the warm welcome!

I have some general knowledge of electronics but no experience with monitors. I do know you have to be VERY careful around the flyback connection to the monitor.

There is no chirping sound that I've heard but i will power it up and really listen hard for it. Using a thermal camera, I did notice the resistor next to the 2 big caps was getting warm as well as the board just above it (circled in the pics) but nothing else on the board is showing signs of heat.

I have ordered in a LCD replacement from Ceronix so if i cant get this monitor working, the upgraded screen should get the game fully functional again. That being said, it would be pretty neat to have the original monitor functioning properly just for nostalgic sake.

Thanks,
Chris

[Chris-socal]

That tells us is that power is coming into the circuit. That IC labeled C5184 manages the power out to the board. If that is in shut down nothing else will get warm downstream of it.
IMO, the CRT monitor is very worth repairing. I prefer the image from a CRT but that's just me. You can get a working replacement board for under $150 delivered.

Yes, do not remove the second anode cap without discharging. These boards are self-discharging so it's low risk but you must be sure. That is really the only precaution you need to take. Do not power the board  without an isolation transformer. Do not power it up without connecting the anode cup to a tube. 

Chris

[Chris-socal]

One way to check for immediate issues is to set your meter to Diode setting and check the following connections with no power applied. These tests do not prove the components are working, it just helps identify if they are shorted.

On XRC5184
1. Black lead on pin 10, red lead on pin 9
2. Black lead on pin 15, red lead on pin 16
Both of these should read like a diode but not a dead short. Many times when the XRC5184 fails one of these pairs goes dead short or open. You can also put black lead on pin one and check all other pins on the IC with red. None should be shorted, just the occasional diode chirp. If none of these two is shorted it is likely something downstream causing the shut down.

Vertical IC (192), if this component is shorted the board will go into shut down.
1.  Put black lead on pin 1
2.  No other leads should read dead short to pin 1 or ground. A few will read like a diode but none should short. If any are shorted you must replace the vertical IC.

Chris

[Todbedy]

One way to check for immediate issues is to set your meter to Diode setting and check the following connections with no power applied. These tests do not prove the components are working, it just helps identify if they are shorted.

On XRC5184
1. Black lead on pin 10, red lead on pin 9
2. Black lead on pin 15, red lead on pin 16
Both of these should read like a diode but not a dead short. Many times when the XRC5184 fails one of these pairs goes dead short or open. You can also put black lead on pin one and check all other pins on the IC with red. None should be shorted, just the occasional diode chirp. If none of these two is shorted it is likely something downstream causing the shut down.

Vertical IC (192), if this component is shorted the board will go into shut down.
1.  Put black lead on pin 1
2.  No other leads should read dead short to pin 1 or ground. A few will read like a diode but none should short. If any are shorted you must replace the vertical IC.

Chris

Thank you! I'll check those out over the weekend.

I did get your DM (for some reason i don't see an option to reply...maybe I'm getting too old ). If i end up sticking with the LCD, I'd let you know an we can work out the details.

Thanks
Chris

[Todbedy]

One way to check for immediate issues is to set your meter to Diode setting and check the following connections with no power applied. These tests do not prove the components are working, it just helps identify if they are shorted.

On XRC5184
1. Black lead on pin 10, red lead on pin 9
2. Black lead on pin 15, red lead on pin 16
Both of these should read like a diode but not a dead short. Many times when the XRC5184 fails one of these pairs goes dead short or open. You can also put black lead on pin one and check all other pins on the IC with red. None should be shorted, just the occasional diode chirp. If none of these two is shorted it is likely something downstream causing the shut down.

Vertical IC (192), if this component is shorted the board will go into shut down.
1.  Put black lead on pin 1
2.  No other leads should read dead short to pin 1 or ground. A few will read like a diode but none should short. If any are shorted you must replace the vertical IC.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I had a chance to test 5194 and the Vert IC in Diode mode with the multi-meter. 10-9 checked out fine at .591 and 15-16 was .662. When putting the black lead on pin 1 I got reading ranging from .643 up to 1.53 and pins 6 12 13 14 15 showing OL (open loop). Ive attached a picture of the recorded readings. When checking the Vert IC (black on pin 1) the reading started low (in the .7-.8 range) and increased except for pin 4 which stayed at .637.

I'm a pretty inexperienced with this but based off of what I understand from you, both these chips might be bad?

Thanks again for everything!

Chris

[Chris-socal]

I don't want this to be a novel but it sounds like you are interested in understanding a little more. I am not a trained tech, this is just what I have learned from reading the 1492 manual. 

I think those readings look fine, all you are looking for is a dead short.  If you look at the schematic of a 5184 it's 3 or 4 different circuits that monitor inputs which trigger an on/off state for power throughput. When the IC blows due to a bad situation it sometimes shorts one of those circuits or blows open. Usually when that happens you will find a diode or flyback with a hole blown in it. I just happen to know that I expect the ones I listed to read as a diode...if they don't something is wrong.  Same with the vertical IC, sometimes when they expire they short out. I have had both of these IC's pass a diode test but turn out bad. Same with voltage regulators, sometimes they test fine but they don't regulate. You learn how to watch for indicators.

Don't get too hung up on the details of each pin reading, you are really only looking for dead shorts at this point.

Do a diode test on the HOT (304), it should read as a diode from middle to each outside pin (.045 to .065-ish), just so long as it isn't a dead short. If it shorts from middle to either outside pin it's bad.

Still a chance the flyback is bad and there isn't any way to test that. The only option is to swap a known good one in. This flyback has a coil that sends voltage back to 5184 basically saying "I'm alive", I think it's pin 14 and if the voltage is too high it shuts down (Xray protection?) or if there is nothing for a period of time it shuts down. Unlike some other boards you cannot power this board without a flyback unless you use the low voltage bypass method covered in the manual.

Chris

[Todbedy]

I don't want this to be a novel but it sounds like you are interested in understanding a little more. I am not a trained tech, this is just what I have learned from reading the 1492 manual. 

I think those readings look fine, all you are looking for is a dead short.  If you look at the schematic of a 5184 it's 3 or 4 different circuits that monitor inputs which trigger an on/off state for power throughput. When the IC blows due to a bad situation it sometimes shorts one of those circuits or blows open. Usually when that happens you will find a diode or flyback with a hole blown in it. I just happen to know that I expect the ones I listed to read as a diode...if they don't something is wrong.  Same with the vertical IC, sometimes when they expire they short out. I have had both of these IC's pass a diode test but turn out bad. Same with voltage regulators, sometimes they test fine but they don't regulate. You learn how to watch for indicators.

Don't get too hung up on the details of each pin reading, you are really only looking for dead shorts at this point.

Do a diode test on the HOT (304), it should read as a diode from middle to each outside pin (.045 to .065-ish), just so long as it isn't a dead short. If it shorts from middle to either outside pin it's bad.

Still a chance the flyback is bad and there isn't any way to test that. The only option is to swap a known good one in. This flyback has a coil that sends voltage back to 5184 basically saying "I'm alive", I think it's pin 14 and if the voltage is too high it shuts down (Xray protection?) or if there is nothing for a period of time it shuts down. Unlike some other boards you cannot power this board without a flyback unless you use the low voltage bypass method covered in the manual.

Chris

Great info!

I tested the HOT and both readings are very close to .460 so that seams to be working fine.

I noticed there are 2 (ground?) pins near the fuse that are labeled 242 that aren't connected to anything (pic), is that normal?

[Chris-socal]

Degauss connector, not used on these machines.

[Todbedy]

Degauss connector, not used on these machines.

I made some progress! I replaced these 6 capacitors:

317
286
215
230
233
191

I’m now getting an image ( https://youtu.be/hHumOYB9vHY. )


Gettin there!!!

[Chris-socal]

Good progress, I would replace all tne caps at this point, thefe aren’t that many.
Im a little perplexed about that roll. Can you post a picture of the entire board from above?

Chris

[Todbedy]

Good progress, I would replace all tne caps at this point, thefe aren’t that many.
Im a little perplexed about that roll. Can you post a picture of the entire board from above?

Chris

I’ll do the rest of the caps today and see if it changes.

Here’s a pic of the board too. One strange thing I noticed was that the picture starts out green and the becomes a mustard color as the monitor warms up. It maybe dims a bit too over time

[Chris-socal]

That could be a problem with one or more of the transistors in the color section. On the left side of your photo there are 3 PRA boards, one for each color. There are 3 transistors for each color around those boards. Those all need to be checked for shorts if you are having color issues.

Once you finish replacing caps you will know more. 125,126,127 and 201 can cause some image issues but I suspect that roll is something else. That might be a source problem. If it isn’t source that means one of the ICs on the board has failed.

Chris

[Todbedy]

That could be a problem with one or more of the transistors in the color section. On the left side of your photo there are 3 PRA boards, one for each color. There are 3 transistors for each color around those boards. Those all need to be checked for shorts if you are having color issues.

Once you finish replacing caps you will know more. 125,126,127 and 201 can cause some image issues but I suspect that roll is something else. That might be a source problem. If it isn’t source that means one of the ICs on the board has failed.

Chris

Good morning Chris!

Made some big progress this morning!! Replacing the rest of the caps (except for H10/H24...i cant seem to find that one) got the image 90% there. The cards are not being displayed for some reason  (see image)

Thanks
Chris

[Chris-socal]

One of two things is going on. You are missing one or two colors. Looks to me like you are missing Red and Green.
Or the game board is sending a bad image.

Check those transistors I mentioned. Put your meter on Diode check and check all 9 of those transistors. It's o.k. if they check open but if any of them are dead-short it's bad.

I don't know what H10 and H24 are, there aren't any parts on the board that are labeled with letters and numbers that I recall. Are you talking about the surface mount 10uf on the PRA-H board? If so, that isn't your problem. You ruled that out by having a stable image once you installed the other caps.

You don't need to replace any other caps than the ones in the electrolytic set. The image problem you are having now is not capacitor related. You are making great progress.

Chris

[Todbedy]

One of two things is going on. You are missing one or two colors. Looks to me like you are missing Red and Green.
Or the game board is sending a bad image.

Check those transistors I mentioned. Put your meter on Diode check and check all 9 of those transistors. It's o.k. if they check open but if any of them are dead-short it's bad.

I don't know what H10 and H24 are, there aren't any parts on the board that are labeled with letters and numbers that I recall. Are you talking about the surface mount 10uf on the PRA-H board? If so, that isn't your problem. You ruled that out by having a stable image once you installed the other caps.

You don't need to replace any other caps than the ones in the electrolytic set. The image problem you are having now is not capacitor related. You are making great progress.

Chris

I checked all 9 transistors and they all check out fine. I agree that it seems like Red and Green aren’t being displayed. Could it possibly be the IC chip C5346A? If so, is there a way to check the chip?

Cheers,
Chris

[Chris-socal]

Not likely. I don't think you would have any image if C5346 was out. Cross your fingers it isn't that, those are as rare as a flyback.
Look closely on the solder side of the board in the color section. That area is notorious for pads lifting off or cracking. Even if the transistors check good it's possible a pad or two is broken, you will need a magnifier to see the level of detail I'm talking about or use the continuity checker on your meter to verify every trace has continuity. Check all the pads on the PRA boards too, yes, there are 18 pads on each PRA. Check continuity from point A to point B on every one of the pads on the PRA boards and all the transistors.
Also check the solder connections where the video comes in (R,G,B,G, HS, VS) and the neck connector. 

This is when it would be helpful to have an extra board to drop in and verify it's the board and not the game. You will have to keep poking around that board. I'm pretty sure you don't have an IC problem, it's likely the PRA boards, transistor or bad solder connection.

There are 3 diodes on the neck board, check those, they rarely fail but you never know. Also check the solder joints on the neck connector. The Color Pins should be marked Red, Green, Blue, on occasion those solder joints crack. 

Chris
 

[Todbedy]

Not likely. I don't think you would have any image if C5346 was out. Cross your fingers it isn't that, those are as rare as a flyback.
Look closely on the solder side of the board in the color section. That area is notorious for pads lifting off or cracking. Even if the transistors check good it's possible a pad or two is broken, you will need a magnifier to see the level of detail I'm talking about or use the continuity checker on your meter to verify every trace has continuity. Check all the pads on the PRA boards too, yes, there are 18 pads on each PRA. Check continuity from point A to point B on every one of the pads on the PRA boards and all the transistors.
Also check the solder connections where the video comes in (R,G,B,G, HS, VS) and the neck connector. 

This is when it would be helpful to have an extra board to drop in and verify it's the board and not the game. You will have to keep poking around that board. I'm pretty sure you don't have an IC problem, it's likely the PRA boards, transistor or bad solder connection.

There are 3 diodes on the neck board, check those, they rarely fail but you never know. Also check the solder joints on the neck connector. The Color Pins should be marked Red, Green, Blue, on occasion those solder joints crack. 

Chris

Another update:


I got the LCD monitor in today and the same blue and white screen appears. This is good news as far as the old monitor. The main board must have an issue that I’ll have to look into.


Making progress though! 

Chris