Bally Slot Machine

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

New member, possibly won't be here long, depending what folks here tell me. 

I'm a 71 year old retired electronics technician, having spent my last 27 years at a local hospital taking care of medical imaging machines.  (Xray, CT, MRI etc.)  Before that I was an FCC licensed 2-way radio technician for Motorola.  My main hobby is restoring antique tube type radios.  I also play Dobro (poorly) in a Bluegrass band, golf (also poorly) a couple times a week, make my own real Brandy, do amateur astronomy, and take care of 10 acres in central Missouri.  I will attempt to repair almost anything.  I have done several jukeboxes, pinball machines, arcade games, vintage small appliances and, again, almost anything, the older the better.  Enough with the introductions.  Now to the business at hand.  I hope I selected the correct forum for the following:

 Wednesday My cousin brought me a late 70s "cocktail" version Space Invaders game and a Bally mechanical slot machine from Arizona in the hopes I could repair them.  I have the Space Invaders game working and turned to the slot machine.  This is my first slot machine.  I can't find any model or serial number information on it.  I haven't looked at the underside, though.  Once I got the lock freed up I opened it up and got some pretty bad news.  There is obviously a large sub chassis missing.  I know nothing about slot machines, but would guess it is a power supply and some sort of elaborate coin handling mechanism.  I'm also guessing that this is likely to be very difficult to obtain. 

So, a few questions:

1:  Can anyone ID this machine?
2:  Is there any chance I can obtain the missing chassis, and how much would it likely cost?
3:  Looks to me like it might need a specifically designed lower half that it would rest on, also missing.  Is this something I could build (I'm a pretty good woodworker and metal worker)  or would I also need to find that?  If so, some idea of it's cost.
4:  I'm a pretty darn good fixer, but this does look a bit intimidating.  Is it likely that there is too much specific technical education required for even a very experienced repair guy like me to overcome in a reasonable amount of time?

Thanks!!

Mike

[shortrackskater]

 

Tube type radios, dobro, golf, astronomy and... BRANDY???   
You're in the right forum!
Can you post a close up shot of the reel assembly? This might be an Bally E series machine but I can't tell until I see the reel reader boards in-between  the reels. Or it's just a Bally EM.  Corrected!!
You're missing the hopper... not too hard to find. Hopefully an EM tech will reply here soon... perhaps member Badbaud, Wolftalk, or maybe Chris-socal.
Give 'em a little time. This is an all volunteer forum.
Again, welcome to NLG. 

[Badbaud]

Welcome!!

It's a Bally EM. Go to www.slotmachinerepair.com and click on Helpful PDF's and download the free Bally EM #2400 service manual.
Many techs here work on the EM series so post your questions here and someone will respond.

[mboessen]

Hi, Badbaud!

You already come recommended by a previous post!  Thanks for your reply. 

Before I get into service manuals and troubleshooting, I would like to have some idea where this is going financially.  It looks like I need this "coin hopper" sub chassis, and probably a stand before I can even start.  Can you give me at least a WHAG what the cost will be and what is the likelihood that I will be able to obtain these missing components?  I know nothing about these machines, and I'll need to give Mark some idea before I start on it.  I'd rather not get immersed in the project only to have my customer say he doesn't want to spend what it will take to get it going. 

I won't lie, the machine looks pretty intimidating, and has been stored in a damp basement for years.  I really like a good challenge, but I'm trying, in my old age, to learn to look before I leap.

Best

Mike

[shortrackskater]

In my opinion, most EM issues cost nearly nothing to fix... it's a matter of proper troubleshooting; checking wiring, contacts, relays, solenoids, etc. I'm not speaking for myself! I struggle with these but you've already had enough similar circuitry experience to do this.
I've found slot stands on Craigslist at times. The easiest thing is just repurpose a heavy duty night stand or wooden file stand. If you search "slot stands" on the entire forum, you'll get some great ideas.
Most importantly, bolt that slot down on the cabinet! 
As for the hopper, best thing is post a WTB in the Newlifegames Classifieds. They're on eBay occasionally but you'll need to figure out the model number you need. Any of those three members I mentioned will likely know. Actually, the model # should be in the manuals Badbaud referred you to.
Member wolftalk may chime in soon. He's got an extensive amount of documentation for the Bally EM as well.

[mboessen]

Hi, Mark:

Thanks for the encouragement!  I  think I can probably do it.  I remember my first jukebox, a Wurlitzer 2700.  After getting a good manual, it took me most of a month to learn the vernacular and the correct names of parts so the guys on the forum could help me.  I suspect this will be the same, and I am kind of dreading that, as memorization has never been my strong suit and is worse at 71.  Before I invest that kind of time, I really need some idea where I will be at financially.  Hopefully someone here can help me with a part number for the missing chassis and some idea what it should cost.  Looking at that 24 pin connector, I imagine it is something fairly complex.

Concerning the stand, I see what looks to be a coin chute that exits through the bottom of the machine.  Not knowing what it is for, I have to presume any stand will have to accommodate that, and whatever goes beneath it.

I'll wait to hear from the experts.  I'll be out of town until tomorrow evening.  I'll check my email then.

Best

Mike

[shortrackskater]

That coin chute is the overflow. When the hopper gets to a certain weight (you can set it) it "leans" on a switch that activates a diverter, directing the money down to a bucket below in the (locked) stand. If you look at where the coins drop in, inside the door, you should see the diverter coil. There's also a lockout behind the coin mechanism. That engages when the highest amount of coins are inserted, usually 1 - 5 depending on the machine. I can't quite see yours... the photo is too small - 3 maybe? When the lockout engages, any additional coins inserted will simply fall in the tray. 

[wolftalk]

the hopper has the payout counter stepper unit on it (like bally EM pinballs).  The disc on the hopper just needs to support the payouts listed on your glass.

the model number is supposed to be on a plate on the outside of the cabinet below the handle, but it's not unusual to be missing or the wrong one.

is there anything written in black sharpie on the reel mechanism or the contact plates the reel wiper arms are swiping across?

if that's no good, there should be codes stamped into the slotted metal index discs next to each reel ... what are they?

"yankee doodle dandy" could be model 1072, which I don't have much info on.

[Badbaud]

That coin chute is the overflow. When the hopper gets to a certain weight (you can set it) it "leans" on a switch that activates a diverter, directing the money down to a bucket below in the (locked) stand. If you look at where the coins drop in, inside the door, you should see the diverter coil. There's also a lockout behind the coin mechanism. That engages when the highest amount of coins are inserted, usually 1 - 5 depending on the machine. I can't quite see yours... the photo is too small - 3 maybe? When the lockout engages, any additional coins inserted will simply fall in the tray. 

In the casino the "drop money" that is diverted into the bottom drop hole is collected late at night in a ritual called "the drop" and is operated by the "drop team" who are escorted by a team of security guards.
The drop money is counted and that is the profit for the casino. Those coins are rolled up to produce rolls of quarters and nickles which are taken to the change booth and sold to the casino customer
to play in the games.
The money that is vended and falls into the hopper is kept there and is not considered casino profit, it is called the "players money". If the hopper  is too full the weight of the excess coins tilts a "weight switch" on the hopper and opens the diverter flap to allow the coins to fall into the drop.

[mboessen]

OK.  That explains the hole in the bottom.  I can see below the handle where the plate used to be.  Can't see any magic marker.  Some time in the next few days I'll pull the chassis with the reels on it and see if I can obtain some numbers.  I presume this is necessary to determine what "coin hopper" I need?

[Badbaud]

The journey continues.

[mboessen]

Indeed.  Presuming the first step of the journey, IE obtaining the missing chassis, is successful, the second step is I will order a book.  Hopefully I can find an original or very good copy.  Then comes the part I dread, IE learning the vernacular, and memorizing the correct names of a thousand parts so you guys can actually help me, and then memorizing the sequence of operation.  Boy am I dreading all of that.  Probably Tuesday before I am back on here.

[wolftalk]

can you email highest possible resolution pics to slotpics@cdyn.com?

the entire game front with door closed and the entire area at the bottom where the hopper goes with good lighting.  Want to see the hopper socket, other stuff that is around it, and if the rails for holding the hopper are there.

to help verify the game id, see what is behind the top glass.  Your glass came from a 1072 ... just need to confirm what's inside.  If you have hat symbols on the reels, then the reels are almost certainly 1072 also.

without a schematic, it will take a bit more work to figure out what should be on the hopper and how to wire it.  You'd really want to unscrew the hopper socket and flip it down/around as best as possible and try and identify all the wire colors. 

Bally was pretty consistent on the wires - using the same colors for the same functions on most of the machines, so you have a decent chance that picking a similar type of game will let you use a different schematic to at least give big hints as to where the wires go.

it'd be a bit time consuming, but it's not impossible to figure things out.  Games with a 24 pin hopper plug/socket are a bit simpler as that usually means all the parts on the hopper are the common stuff like payout relay, payout counter and delay relay.

the 1072 looks like a remake of the 815 "liberty bell special" in a bigger cabinet.  Those two models use the same reel tapes, reel wiper wiring and slotted reel index discs.  The payout counters are different and I don't have the paperwork for either, but that's not a problem as any payout counter disc that supports the pays on the glass will work,

the wiring would likely be pretty similar to the 815-1, which you can find on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/ - tho you'd probably have some extra stuff that is common to later model machines.

btw, what you are missing looks like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/315378139065 ... however, at his asking price you can usually buy whole machines on the west coast.
 

[shortrackskater]

Indeed.  Presuming the first step of the journey, IE obtaining the missing chassis, is successful, the second step is I will order a book.  Hopefully I can find an original or very good copy.  Then comes the part I dread, IE learning the vernacular, and memorizing the correct names of a thousand parts so you guys can actually help me, and then memorizing the sequence of operation.  Boy am I dreading all of that.  Probably Tuesday before I am back on here.

I wouldn't worry on the vernacular, names, sequences, etc. It's all a logical sequence you can actual think out in your head. Many of the "fixes" on these are compartmental. You're just fixing ONE of the sequential steps that has failed. And a LOT are just a contact out of alignment, or a dirty contact. EM machines have self cleaning contacts provided you keep playing them time to time. With your experience, I think this won't be as hard as you think. 

[mboessen]

Hi, Wolftalk:

I see what the guy meant that mentioned you as someone I need to know.  $250 doesn't seem all that  bad for that thing if it works.  I guess we need to figure out if it is the right thing for my machine.  The web site won't let me post hi res pictures.  I already posted one of the front of the machine open and closed in my first post. 

I'll re-read your post and attempt to collect the requested information.   Might be able to get at it later this afternoon, but have some mowing to get done.

Best, and thanks!

Mike

[mboessen]

Hi, Wolftalk

I emailed some pictures to the address you posted.  Let me know if you need more.  I took a couple of pics of the hopper plug from each side in case that would be helpful.  I removed the top glass.  There is nothing behind it but a fluorescent light and reflector.  There are no markings on the back of the glass.  I'm posting that picture here as well.

Definitely "Hat Symbols" on the top glass and reels.  Game theme is "Yankee Doodle Dandy".

Someone mentioned the wheels (Reels?) and maybe index wheels?  Anyhow, also attached a couple pics of those from each side

Again, I'm not inclined to go much farther unless I can procure a correct hopper assembly.  Hopefully these pictures will help with that.

Sure appreciate the help.

Best

Mike

[mboessen]

Hi, All:

I have an email from Phil saying the hopper might be findable but the payout wheel not so much.  I see some Bally hoppers on ebay, but no idea if they would work.  I'm game to post a classified here.  Hopefully I can figure out how to do it.  Can anyone advise me what I am advertising for?  This is my first slot machine and I'm pretty much clueless.

Thanks!

Mike

[wolftalk]

hi res pics and what little info I have is here:

https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots/1072/

I'll add the newest batch when mboessen emails them to me.

the tough part may be finding a payout disc capable of supporting a 3 pay, but worst case is you live with a 2-pay until you find one.

the payout discs look like the below, but it doesn't have a 150 pay and you can't cut down the 200 since you need that also.

[mboessen]

Hi, Wolftalk:

Thanks for the help!  Can you give me an idea what pictures are still required?

For the group, the part numbers on the slotted wheels, left to right:
484 719, 484 718, 484 717, 484 720.  The first 2 have a "slashed zero" between the 2 numbers.

Payouts:  4 hats: 5000, 4 Bells: 200, 3 hats: 150, 3 bars: 150, 3 bells: 18, 4 blue things (plums?): 18,
3 plums: 14, 4 oranges: 14, 3 oranges: 10,  3 cherries: 10, 2 cherries:  5, 1 cherry:  3.

It's a quarter machine. 

Let me know if any  more info is required and I'll attempt to provide it.

Best

Mike