809-n jackpot bell runaway

[Phan000]

Got an 809-n nearly fixed up.

Been having issues with jackpot bell-

It chimes with each win, but does not reset until the next coin is inserted.

What could I do to remedy this issue?

Thanks!

[wolftalk]

schem for an 809-N says it rings for 7's while paying or when the bar jackpot relay is powered.

the bar jackpot relay stays powered on a bar win until a coin is dropped, so it looks like that's how it's supposed to work.

easy change is look for a switch on the bar jackpot relay with wires 30 (yellow) and 10-2 (red) on the blades.  Disconnect wire 30 and attach wire 45 to the blade instead.  Then the bell will stop when payout ends.

wire 45 is on a reel mech A-2 switch ... I assume the bar jackpot relay is on the reel mech?

[Phan000]

It is indeed on the reel mech.

The bell itself is not functioning well.  It has power, but needs a nudge to start chiming.  Is it possible to replace this coil, or just better to replace the whole bell?  I have loads of various extra coils.

[wolftalk]

since ya have an unused switch on the bar jackpot relay, I'd move the red wires up to a blade there and string a 45 wire from A-2 to make a NO switch.

leave the yellow wire attached so it's easier for someone later to see what ya did.

you have a 47 wire connected to the 52 wire on the handle release coil ... bally didn't do that.  Is it going to a meter?

wrt the bell, did ya clean the contacts in the bell and see if there's anything sticky?  The bell coil is running on 6V, so you'd need one that works for that.  I think bally just sold the bell as a unit, so the coil wasn't separately available.  I think the coil resistance should be around 2 ohms (edwards 55 bell).

btw, 809-N docs on https://bingo.cdyn.com/slots now.

[Phan000]

I tinkered with the bell.  Yellow screw was fastened too tightly. 

So just jump the 45 wire from its existing blade to the one of the three top blades where the red will also be attached?

That 47 wire goes up to the odds reset relay.

[wolftalk]

the top switch on the bar jackpot relay has three blades.  You don't need the top one, so call the other two A and B ... doesn't matter which is A.

move the red wires to A blade, and jumper 45 from existing spot on the A-2 switch to the B blade.

the wire on the odds reset relay switch is 21-1 (blue/red).  It goes to a few places, once of which is a switch on the handle release relay (in your pic, left side, 2nd up from bottom).

the wire on the handle release coil looks green/orange, but could be the lighting.

I'm guessing ya followed the wrong wire? 

is the wire going to someplace on the odds unit ... like the odds reset coil?   Could be a hack to reset the odds unit when someone couldn't figure out the open-a-zero switches on the odds units and the odds reset relay.

[Phan000]

I left the  jackpot bell as is for now. after discovering an additional issue-

777 and 5 bar are both short paying by a bunch.

Both pay like 50 coins.

The coil for the multiplier has a poor connection-  leads are soldered, but hanging.  Appears coil needs replacement.  I can’t locate this particular coil in my stash.  Would any other similar coils work?

Jackpot bell does not ring for 777 or 5 bar wins either.


Still haven’t traced the extra 47 wire.

[DavidLee]

The coin denomination say .25. The top glass appears to be for nickels.
Right side of reel glass appears to be for nickels if my math is right, $100. = 2000 nickels.

777s and bars seldom get hit. Could be dirty contacts related to these payouts and the bell.

Most early machines attendants paid the big jackpots in cash.
These machines would shut off in order to keep the player for playing off the win,
also pumping out hundreds of coins.

[Phan000]

Thanks for the response David,  it is set up for quarters.

Did some more testing & cleaned the payout disk a bit.  Paying really strange amounts


Regular bar wins are good through 4 coins.  5th coin still pays 80.

777-  one coin/50coin payout. Two coins/30

5 bar win. One coin 50/payout. Two coins/100

No bell as mentioned on either big win.

On bigger wins,  winner paid light comes on after payment & machine is silent.

[wolftalk]

the game uses the pinball score reel style multiplier units to pay 2x-5x.  If they use wipers boards similar to the payout counter, see if there's a carbon track on the boards that are shorting trace segments together and making the payout counter step too often.

wipers misaligned/bridging the odds disc rivets will also cause the payout counter to step too much.

probably best to get all pays working correctly on 1 coin, then deal with issues with the multiplier circuits.

all that needs to work for reliable payout on 1 coin is the payout counter wiper->traces, the odds disc wipers->rivets, plug connections and the reel wipers.

when you get a short pay, look at where the wipers are on the payout counter to see if the pay stopped.  If it's correctly one step off the end of the pay level trace, then either the payout counter is stepping more than once per coin ejected or the pawls are grabbing too many teeth ... got a pic of the rachet side of the payout counter?

[Phan000]

Payout is kinda janky and uneven on all wins.  Attached video shows this and perhaps some arcing in the payout counter.


Below are some photos of the back side of the ratchet as well as some that show wiper placement after big wins.

https://youtu.be/QI4rH1IF68k

[DavidLee]

What happens on three $5 bars with one coin in the machine?
Curious about how many coins payout.

Also noticed that the cam follower is missing from the micro switch.
See photo.

Would also like to see a photo of the solder joint at the bottom of the payout step up unit.

[Phan000]

5 bar payout seems to vary.  Yesterday it was 59 coins, today low 20’s

Great call on that missing cam.  Found it loose at bottom of machine.  Guess it needs replaced.  Not sure if I have another.

Step up joints look relatively clean.

[wolftalk]

with the cam follower off the microswitch, the safety timeout motor is always reset. 

while you can replace the microswitch / follower eventually so the safety timeout works, it's not very important for a home use machine.

for a 100 pay, your top outboard carriage wiper should not step off the 100 trace until around step 85-90.  The main wipers need to be on the CO trace before the outboard wiper leaves the 100 trace.

you can loosen the two screws and slide the wiper finger fingers right to adjust the position.

for the 200 pay, is the wire between the upper and lower outboard fingers ok?  You need the finger on the bottom 200 trace to connect to the F trace (bottom blade on the upper fingers)

[Phan000]

Still having big trouble with the payouts.  Going backwards really.

Adjusted the 100 & 200 fingers to the right.  No real progress.  Tried different positions for both & the best they will do is like 50 coins or less.

Still no bell and payout stutters and is janky.  Winner paid light flashes as payout is occurring.

20 coin no longer works. Bell rings, but no motion in hopper.

Looking at payout board,  it looks a bit worn.  Not sure if it is bad?

Wiring connections on bottom were pretty bad.  Com wire came loose.  Soldered it back on after the photo below.  there is an extra unconnected grey/ black wire in that area.


Not sure what to look at next?

https://youtube.com/shorts/i6ZRv6kjFQA?feature=share

[DavidLee]

Photo one contacts top left could use some adjustment and cleaning.

Also, the black tape at the bottom of the unit.
Good indication there could be some weak connections.

[wolftalk]

your wiring is wrong on the payout counter.

1] the black/red wire goes on the 100 pad next to the F trace.  There should be a wire on that pad connecting from that pad to the 100 trace in the upper right corner.
2] remove the grey/yellow wire from the 50 pad and attach it to the other grey/yellow wire on the F pad.

the pivot arm in your video teeter-totters as a coin passed out of the hopper.

how regular that action is depends on coins exiting the hopper at a consistent rate.  Not enough coins in the hopper, wrong pinwheel, the override solenoid not staying pulled in or coins falling off the knife can cause you issues.  If you can point a camera at the coins lifting the pivot arm roller end, that'll show you what's going on.

the wire not connecting to the C.O. (carry over) trace will cause a short pay if the outboard wipers are involved.  The outboard wiper finger needs to be on the active pay trace until the regular wipers are on the C.O trace. 

e.g. for a 100 pay, the outboard wiper finger should be on the 100 trace until around step 85 of the payout counter +/- a few steps, then the outboard finger falls off the end of the 100 trace but the pay continues until the regular wipers fall off the end of the C.O. trace,

if that's a hole burned through the F trace near the 100 trace, time for a new board, conductive epoxy patch, or solder on a thin copper strip over the hole/trace.  You can also try filling in the hole with silver solder then sand it smooth as you can. 

[Phan000]

Ok. Thanks for all of the info.

I ordered a “new” board, and will rewire all of those connections.

What is the best way to remove the payout board?

Remove the two nuts and posts with the arrows?



Should there be no connections on the front of the 50?

Should this loose grey/black be attached with the other one?

[wolftalk]

two screws and three posts looks right to remove the board.  Note you can usually cock the board a little in the screw holes and the board may not be mounted squarely to the frame.  Easiest thing is make marks on the frame and align the new board the same so you don't need to fiddle with twisting the board to tune the wiper<->trace relationship.

if ya already removed the board, when putting the new one on you may need to leave the screws/post a little loose so you can twist the board after the wipers are on and you can step the unit to check when the contacts leave the ends of the traces.  Tighten board down when you're happy with the wiper position on the traces.

remember to transfer wiring on the back side to the new board for the 100 trace/pad.  You don't need to wire the 50 pad/traces together since your game doesn't use the 50 traces (nothing pays 50), but it wouldn't hurt if you do. 

your current board may wire the 50s together because that board was used in a lot of machines, some of which had a 50 pay.  Bally made them all the same so they didn't need to make/stock a different part number just to save a few inches of wire.

yes on connecting the grey/black wires (98) together on the C.O. trace.  The 98 wire connects to the payout counter step-up arm switch, a hopper cam switch (to ring a chime!), a payout relay switch and the C.O. trace, so there'll be a double wire on half those pieces.

same with the grey/yellow (93) wires.  They should both be on the F trace.   I think one goes to the payout relay coil, the other goes to the payout counter step-up arm switch.

the white/green wire (54) should be on the 200 trace, and the blue/yellow (23) wire on the 20 tace.

[Phan000]

I’ve not yet removed old board.  Will mark before removal as suggested.

I jumpered the misplaced yellow and grey back to the F & the loose grey and black wire paired up.

20 coin is working.

Still short on both 555 and 777.  Hopefully new board helps with this.  Thanks greatly for the detailed wiring instructions.


It appears there are some issues inside the hopper causing the janky payout.

https://youtube.com/shorts/ybNKpMs_nQU?feature=share

Looks like the knife needs adjustment,  but the coins also seem to fall off at the 2-3 o’clock spot.